Fiocchi 9mm AP


#1

At SLICS I picked up a Fiocchi factory data sheet that appears to date from around the early 2000’s. It shows all of their 9mm variants for police / military use and shows two AP variations. One is a 103gr truncated bullet with black tip that I am familiar with, but it also shows a more round-nose design (97gr) with an exposed pointed steel core tip, similar to the Russian style. Does anyone know if these cartridges are out there on the police market much, or if they are just more scarce than the truncated type which have appeared as more common to me? The data sheet suggests through the descriptions that the 103gr truncated type is the more potent of the two if I am understanding it correctly.


#2

DK, Thanks for the great info. I wish someone had info on the pointed bullet AP. I have never seen one!

Cheers,
Lew


#3

DK,

Here stateside, pistol-cal AP ammo is basically unheard of in law enforcement. I’ve never encountered a single round actually for modern sale to LE, unless you count the blacktip 5.7 (the use of the caliber is scant, AP even more so, and getting the blacktip stuff is like pulling teeth).

The push for enhanced-penetration rounds like the Winchester Metal-Piercing has long passed, with a majority of LE JHP ammo passing the FBI protocols which include metal and glass barriers.

I hardly ever even see the ‘odd mag’ anymore (long ago, some folks used to carry a spare mag full of pistol FMJ). From a tactics standpoint, the handgun is a reactive/defensive arm, so switching out to AP ammo doesn’t apply. If you know you’re going up against armor/barriers, you take a long gun anyway. Carrying AP as primary doesn’t fly due to legitimate concerns about the number of officers shot with their own sidearm and overpenetration on human targets. Officers don’t encounter body-armored suspects very often at all.

There is some current use of AP in limited rifle employments (mainly 6.8SPC, .308, and larger calibers).

I was wondering what the acronym stood for (it’s listed as ACP and APC in the literature shown)…armor piercing conical?


#4

Hi, as they state in the catalogue on the AP bullet “steel core” and on the APC “Hard metal core”, I think the pointed one uses a Wolfram Carbide Core, hence the “C” in addition to the normal AP…
I have asked for samples, but it is very difficult to get them in here, as they are classified in Italy, as also in Germany as WARMATERIAL, needing a lot of paperwork from both sides…

Forensic


#5

I have some notes from the Swiss show, either last year or in 2010 on both the truncated 103gr load and a similar load with a normal RN ogive not illustrated in DKs material. The truncated load weighs 170gr overall and has a moderately magnetic tip. The RN load weighs 161gr overall and has a strongly magnetic tip (you could see the exposed steel core under the black paint just like on the truncated bullet). Thee weight comparison would indicate a 94gr bullet in the RN load. The difference in the magnetic attraction indicates a tungsten/wolfram carbide core in the 103gr bullet and a steel core in the RN bullet.

I have not seen the 97gr pointed bullet illustrated in DKs material.

I know that both the FBI and ATF ordered penetrating 9mmP ammo 20 or so years ago from GEA here in the US, but I’m sure Mwinter is correct that there is no real use for them in ordinary police work. Other US activities have purchased penetrating 9mmP since then, but I haven’t seen any of it from any of these activities so it is obviously close hold

I suspect that this ammo is intended for very special applications like, as I understand, is the German DM91, 9mmP penetrating ammunition.

Cheers,
Lew


#6

These loads were shown in Italy during a law enforcement show some years ago. An article about this show was published on some italian gun magazine, but I remember those strange bullets well.

As far as I know these loads are not used by italian police or military forces. Forensic is right, this bullets are considered war material and can’t be bought or used by civilians here


#7

I was recently sent a current Fiocchi products catalog and it shows these 2 9mm AP loads. The literature says that the truncated bullet has a tungsten-carbide core, and that the more round-nose looking 97gr version is steel core. You can’t see it clearly in the photo, but in my higher resolution version here the 97gr bullet has no exposed steel core, and so I wonder if they moved away from that design concept shown in the slightly older data sheet that I have to a more traditional FMJ steel core round nose design as shown below?


#8

The 97gr bullet illustrated looks identical to the one I documented.

Lew