Fraser-Velox cartridges?


#1

I need a quick education, or a source for knowledge, on these cartridges. Something I have never encountered and I could find little searching thru Google, except there was a gunmaker in Edinburgh that apparently made rifles for these.

Thanks


#2

Hello, here you have a patent drawing (1897) and short description:


#3

Shotmeister,

Here is a link to a thread with pics from the older Forum to add to Fede’s nice patent information.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2077

Dave


#4

Great information and many thanks but it brings more questions.
Were these Fraser-Velox rounds, loaded by Eley, the only cartridges his rifles could fire?
It seems they were loaded in cartridges that could be used in other guns. Correct?
What is the time frame for this ammunition? How long did Eley make it and how long did the Fraser shop last?


#5


A previous post on Fraser’s cartridge.


#6

I believe the Velox was a different bullet. Long and pointed with a single taper looking like a stretched pencil. the name velox clearly being an analogy for streamlined. Obviously an attempt to corner the name for branding purposes.

I believe also he had at one time an association with Kings Norton Metals who made at least some of his ammo for him prior to WW1

The .256 F-V was I believe the same as the .256 Rigby, a rebranded 6.5x54. Rigby tried to get it adopted for target shooting. I’m guessing now but I suspect the Velox bullet was an attempt to make inroads into the target shooting world with a low BC bullet rather than the rounded noses more commonly found on these european calibres.

Being in Scotland he was at a disadvantage because most of the serious target shooting happened in the south at Bisley by that time.

Daniel Fraser still exists as a gunmaker based in Cromarty in the Scottish Isles where they make top end custom rifles. So the company should be contactable if you are interested.


#7

edit: I was wrong about the last bit, they were bought out by Dickson & McNaughton in 1997


#8

Great! I’ve found a picture

municion.org/256/256FraserRimless.htm


#9

Has anyone found a contemporary catalogue entry for the Fraser Velox rounds?

I have checked my Eley, Nobel and Kynoch catalogues fron 1896 to WWI and nowhere is the round listed, which leads me to suspect it was only available from Fraser himself and he did not license the patent to the big manufacturers.

Regards
TonyE


#10

The only other reference source that may have some background is the NRA museum at Bisley regarding the target shooting connection. I will be down there on the 5th of next month for the open day (as will you Tony?) It might be worth a try. Other than that the trail dries up.


#11

For what it is worth, here is a packet for a .450/.400 Magnum Nitro-Express (3 1/4) with a 400gr. Fraser bullet.
Headstamp was “ELEY .'450/400 NITRO”.


#12

Now thats the sort of load I could easily imagine having the “frangible” fraser bullet. Perfect example, thanks Ron for that.


#13

Fraser was a great marketer. As you likely know double rifles & magazine types in those days were iron-sighted. Especially important with the double rifles as the barrels were regulated to shoot to the same point of impact at a set yardage. (most often 100 yards) So they shot with only one loading bullet/weight & powder charge, this was often listed inside the case & printed on the label. Fraser very often used a different bullet weight for a ‘common’ caliber/case type & that load was only available from him. So if he sold you a gun he also sold you the ammunition, as you couldn’t get it from another ammunition maker unless as a custom load, which was very unlikely (expensive).

My impression of his product is that he purchased cases from Eley (and perhaps others?) & loaded them in-house rather than buying loaded rounds loaded by Eley. Any Eley headstamped rounds I’ve seen came from Fraser packages. Which were a different type of box than Eley used. An unsealed sleeve / tray type/style but with a hinged top to the tray & a label printed on the sleeve with hand written load data. Also a heavier brown paper /cardboard box than Eley used in their two-piece (top / bottom full-cover) boxes. I’ve also not seen an Eley labeled box of this Fraser style.

I’ve never (yeah that word) seen an original box containing Fraser Velox / ratchet bullets that wasn’t his box.

These bullets were not frangible, in the modern sense of the word, but along with the Kynoch & Jeffery patent vertical slit-jacket bullets designed to expand upon impact & hopefully kill quicker.


#14

I may be able to add a little insight as to why Fraser possibly chose Eley and KNM for his supplier when Kynoch or BMMCo would have been geographically nearer. Its to do with the way the railway lines ran from Edinburgh. They ran into London, London being the hub on those days. To get to Birmingham from Edinburgh would probably have meant coming into London and going back out again from a different station. So for someone to come down for meetings to negotiate, sign contracts etc a London (or Kent) based manufacturer would have been easier. Still a long train journey in those days.