From which companies are these drawings coming from?


#1

from which companies are these drawings coming from ?

First one

Second one

Third one

Fourth one

Fifth one

thanks
jp


#2

They look like copies of Waffenamt drawings, probably provided to a manufacturer of components.


#3

Vlim is right.

From the “WaA” (Waffenamt) in the bottom left corner and the “13…” Sachnummer in the drawing number field you can see it is a drawing of a part of an adopted item. “13” is the Stoffgebiet (materiel class), then comes a letter for which I do not know the rules of assignment and last a serial number. So you have 13 E 9024, for example.

The first drawing is Luftwaffe, not army, identified by 113… I expect it has LC, not WaA in the left corner.
The third drawing confuses me somewhat, because a number like “1 VII 2147” would be assigned to foreign hardware manufactured for German use (like French Lebel cartridges), but the text mentions Pistolenpatrone 08.
The fourth drawing is an ordinary company drawing. In this case August Winkhaus in Münster (code afu) who for example produced soft iron cores for bullets.
The fifth drawing could be Rheinmetall, but I am very unsure.


#4

Re third drawing:

The “normal” identification for the Pistolengeschoss 08 m.E. steel core is 13 E 9213-2


#5

Thank you

If I understand well :

when there is waA it is an army drawing sent to a manufacturer
when there is LC it is an Luftwaffe drawing sent to a manufacturer

And in an case such drawings are not manufacturers ones.

Right ??

JP


#6

With WW2 going on, the world started to come apart around German military authorities. So be prepared that everything was possible and the German bureaucracy did not always work as intended. The difficult thing for us today is avoiding interpreting too much into given facts.

I would put it the following way:
If it carries a typical “Sachnummer” (e.g. 13 E 9024) in the “Zeichnung-Nr” field in the bottom right
AND carries NO obvious company name
THEN it is most probably an official drawing (like an Ordnance drawing in the U.S.).

I agree that WaA clearly indicates army. LC ist Luftwaffe armament department, but I assume other Luftwaffe letters could appear.

There are no rules for drawings by private companies, except that they will usually have the company name visible (in the bottom right of the sheet, if DIN standard was observed).

I once saw a drawing of the A4 rocket by Heeresanstalt Peenemünde (army!) which neither had WaA nor the “outsider” name of the installation (Heimat-Artillerie Park 11) but instead only the manufacturer code mpe. As I wrote above: everything is possible.


#7

Thanks

And even if it has WaA when there is a mark of the manufacturer, it is a manufacturer drawing. Right ?

this one is from Mauser for example. Right ?

But it is very close from drawings N°2 and N°3,

therefore Perhaps these two are from Mauser.
What do you think ?


#8

You are right, the first is obviously a Mauser company drawing. Criterion “WaA” is fulfilled, but “Sach-Nr” is not and an obvious company logo is present. So no official drawing, but a company drawing.
It is also logical, because Mauser and DWM were part of the Quandt group. This drawing compares the own “short” cartridge with that of competitor Polte.

The other two drawings are in my view definitely not Mauser. They do not bear a Mauser logo. They refer to details of cartridges which are of no interest to Mauser. Mauser drawings of complete cartridge dimensions als well as chamber dimensions are known because they needed this information for making barrels. But the shape of an internal steel core for a pistol bullet or the details of Platzpatrone 33 (blank) are of no interest to a weapon manufacturer. The weapons are built to handle the real cartridge. Making blanks work is the problem of the blank cartridge manufacturer.
Edit: The WaA is present, the Sach-Nr is present and a company name is NOT present: criterion for official drawing fullfilled.


#9

The part of the drawing you show is called Schriftfeld (text field) in German. This was standardized (and the standard modified) just as it is in U.S. Ordnance drawings. From an identical layout of the text field alone one cannot conclude that two drawings originate from the same company.
Additional informations are needed, like drawing number layout or the draughtman’s signature, for example the ubiquitious “Mewes” of Polte.


#10

thank ou very much

jp


#11

JP, the first one is a drawing by Rheinmetall-Borsig AG, Sömmerda. I have a good quality copy with the company name written in the fifth square from the left.

The second drawing illustrates a Polte made cartridge, even though it was not made by that company.

The fifth drawing is also from Rheinmetall. I have a few others of these series clearly identified with their logo (no company name).


#12

Fede, thanks for clearing this up. I am glad my guess regarding the fith drawing was right.


#13

thank you
jp