Frommer 9mm 380


#1

Any information about this Hungarian box of .380 would be appreciated.


#2

The box label about says it all. The F-GY at the top stands for the company name, Fegvergyar and the “BP” at the bottom stands for “Budapest” where it is located.

The F P at either side stands for “Frommer Pistole.”

Hungarian had two models of 9 mm Short (.380 Auto) caliber handgun in their regular services, the Femaru Models 29 and 37. Either pistol, quite “sturdy” for the caliber could use this ammo in a pinch, even though it is supposedly a hotter load than the normal .380. However, Frommer made varision versions of their Pistol, shown on the box label as well. There were ones with longer barrels and grips than the “Baby” Frommer shown on the box. I am not aware that any of the Frommer pistols were adopted by anyone in the Austro-Hungarian empire or Hungary during the period of the lead up to and World War II. They may be have been - certainly plenty were used by Police and some are known to have been used as non-standard issue in various German Armed Organizations. They are all good pistols, although none as modern as say the Walther PP Model.

Can’t think of anything else to say about these cartridges. They are moderately scarce, with the box being much scarcer than the cartridges, naturally.


#3

Thank you.

I agree, it seems to me to be a commercial box, rather than miliatry issue.

How old would you estimate this is? WWI era?


#4

Yes, it is commercial ammunition. The same headstamp appears on 7.65 mm (.32 ACP) and on 6.35 mm (.25 A.C.P.) Many consider the 7.65 mm and the 9 mm to be separate calibers - that is, 7.65 Frommer “Long” and 9 mm Frommer. However, most recognize only the short-case 7.65 mm and the 9 mm under the Frommer name, as separate caliber from the Browning series. There was an earlier Frommer cartridge with a short case, that also has the same headstamp. It was for a Model 1901 Frommer, a pistol that looks somewhat like the Model 1907 Roth-Steyr, but had an outside hammer and feed from a removable box magazine, looking much like a Luger magazine, rather than fed with stripper clips through the top like the 1907 Roth-Steyr.

The First Frommer pistol for the 7.65 mm cartridge was the Frommer Stop Model of 1912 The 9 mm version was called the Frommer Stop M.II, according to some sources. The Frommer Baby shown on the box label was produced in the same era. The Frommer Liliput, the 6.35 mm version, came out in 1923. However, it was not the same design as the previous Frommer Stop variations, but more a smaller version of the Femaru Model 1929, although it preceded it.

My Statement that the Frommer pistol was not a Hungarian Service Pistol is evidently NOT correct. In glancing over my Frommer File to write this answer, I see one European source indicates that the full-sized Frommer Stop was carried by the Hungarian Army during the time of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (through the end of WWI) with some lingering in service during the 1920s.

This discussion of firearms was necessary to date the use of the cartridges. As I have always said, you CANNOT divorce the subject of ammunition from that of firearms, as much as we may try to. They go hand in hand and our knowledge of firearms is often the source of knowledge of ammunition used in them.


#5

Thank you John Moss,

I appreciate the information you wrote up. I could not agree more about the study of firearms going hand-in-hand with the study of the ammunition used in them. It’s unfortunate that I don’t have a .380 Frommer to go with this box, it would be make an attractive collection.

Best regards,
Greg


#6

A footnote on the Hungarian military use of the Stop pistol: it was in fact procured calibers 7.65 m/m as well as 9 m/m. Specimens in the larger caliber are less common than the smaller but do exist with Hungarian military acceptance marks dated during the First World War. Jack


#7

Evidently, the Frommer pistols primarily went to HONVED which, by my understanding, was kind of like the National Guard is in the USA. Some were still in issue in WWII, and there was some use of the pistol by German forces, as with just about every European self-loading pistol made up until the end of the war.