G.Egestorff American Cartridges

44 W.C.F. by Georg Egestorff
Anyone familiar with any other American cartridges by this early German manufacturer?
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Was that the same Georg Egestorff who founded Hanomag (German half-track manufacturer)?

Believe so. He was also an early maker of locomotives which were shipped across Europe and to England.

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Yes, it is the same Egestorff. Similar to Theodor Bergmann of Gaggenau he founded a number of companies in very different fields of business.
Founded 1858, in 1879 the factory at Linden became a corporation named Lindener Zündhütchen- und Thonwaaren-Fabrik. (Thonwaaren = pottery) Its location was more and more surrounded by living quarters and about 1912 was relocated to Empelde, also near Hannover. About 1926 Dynamit AG bought all shares.

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44 WCF is the only American cartridge I can find in my G EGESTORFF headstamps.

Thanks Guy

More american cartridges from EGESTORFF.

It should be noted that not all the calibers shown on that catalog page are “American.” The .450 Revolver is, I believe, originally an English caliber, the Montenegrin cartridge is self-explanatory and the the Velodog cartridge originated in France. However, the .450 and the Velodog were both made, at one time, in the US as well. The .380 Revolver round is likely British, but they are several variations of this cartridge and, quite frankly, they confuse me.

John Moss

I agree John.
Would understand American as a cartridge that originated here.
Just as I would view 303 British as European though made after by W.R.A. Co. and others.

Appears 3 American cartridges (32, 38, & 44 S&W) read V.A.C.
Do not find this in IAA headstamp codes.
What does it stand for and was it owned by G.Eggestorff?

It looks like LAC to me; perhaps it stands for Lindener Ammunition Company or something of the sort? Jack

Appears 3 American cartridges (32, 38, & 44 S&W) read V.A.C.

What is V.A.C. ?

I don’t know the identification of L.A.C., but I do have this box. No address or company name is on the box, bot it is stamped ‘Made in Germany’.

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According to the Cartridge Headstamp Guide, Page 138, White & Munhall, a book still useful after about 56 years, “L.A.C.” stands for the German arms and ammunition export firm of A. Lauen & Company Ltd., Hamburg.

I am not qualified to comment on the veracity of this information, but W & M were pretty good at saying “I don’t know” if they couldn’t confirm something. Not to say there were no errors in their pioneer effort at headstamp identification.

John Moss

I believe i have a German box of .32 or .38 S&W marked Lau & Co. I’ll need to look for that.

I appreciate the product info provided by Rigby and those who clarified some of those cartridges as L.A.C. headstamp and manufacturer.
Still curious what is the connection between G. EGESTORFF & L.A.C. headstamps as shown on the drawing?

LAC was an export firm. Evidently, they had some sort of agreement with Egestorff to box ammo as the “LAC” brand for export. Such agreements sometimes limit the countries that the exporter can sell the ammo in (under their name, rather than the manufacturer’s) or limit the calibers that can be exported under the Exporter’s brand than that of the manufacturer.

I have no idea if this was the case with LAC/Egestorff, but it is likely there was some contractual agreement of one sort or another.

John Moss

I’m not sure if there is a connection between “L.A.C.” headstamped cartridges made by George Egestoff and A. Lauen & Co., but I don’t think so. Maybe W&M had more information about this or maybe they based their identification in the fact that this headstamp is illustrated in A. Lauen catalogs. Below you can see a scan from the 1927 edition showing a L.A.C. headstamp along other illustrations taken from an earlier Egestorff publication. Also, note that the trademark used by A. Lauen & Co. was “LACO”.

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I don’t have information about a “L.A.C.” trademark assigned to them, Egestorff or any other company, and I think that it was a fantasy brand made by Egestorff for export but it was never registered, like “A.P.C.”.

Regards,

Fede

Fede - I have no independent source for anything to do with Lauen, as I indicated above. However, not sure, for the first time ever (:-)) that I understand the thought that they might night be connected. I find the difference between “LACO” and “L.A.C.” to be pretty insignificant, as headstamps often do not totally match trademarks used for other purposes (advertising, etc.) in every respect. Also, it would seem more than coincidence that Lauen’s catalog shows both Egestorff headstamps and a L.A.C. headstamp.

Again, I don’t have an answer I could call “well-documented” for sure. I admit that an entry in one book is certainly not conclusive documentation, although White and Munhall were pretty scientific in works created for the H. P. White Laboratory and had to have found that information somewhere. They were not prone to guessing in their works. But, of course, their are errors in their book, as with most others on almost any subject. What we know now about ammunition is a quantum leap forward from what anyone knew some fifty years or more ago.

For sure, more research on this subject needs to be done.

Salud.

John M.