G.G & Co or GECO

#1

This box came with 20 cartridges.
Based on the box label, I would like to know which headstamp is correct for the box.
10 with - GECO D 6.35 D
10 with - GG & Co D* 6.35 *D
%20Durlach%20(Baden) %20Durlach%20(Baden)%20a %20Durlach%20(Baden)%20b %20Durlach%20(Baden)%20e %20Durlach%20(Baden)%20c %20Durlach%20(Baden)%20d

Help Needed Dating Geco & RWS Rds Using Boxes Codes
#2

Bob - I cannot offer a definitive answer, but I have the same box, but with only one round left in it (the way I usually collect these - often leaving behind all but two rounds from a full box to lessen shipping costs or to be less of a burden on people picking up items reserved for me at European shows. The headstamp on that round is D GECO D 6.35.

Just a clue; again, certainly NOT a definitive answer on my part.

John Moss

#3

Bob,
Is there a code stamped on the back of the box or inside the lid. From some other boxes I have seen, I suspect this headstamp change occured in the very early 1930s, but just a guess.

Below is a 7.65mm Para box and headstamp.

Cheers,
Lew

image
image

#4

A caution on the box label shown by Lew (beautiful condition). There are variations in boxes using the exact same wording on the label. My box with “D GG&Co D 7.65” headstamp is a pink label, over the same bluish-green box that Lew has (evident in the photo by the strip at top). I have a second box with the identical label. It too is a “lift-top” box, but constructed somewhat differently as it has metal staples at the corners. The entire box is buff-color, including the label. The headstamp in that box is “D * *”. I mention this for those that might have one of these boxes still factory sealed and don’t want to open them. Just one problem with sealed boxes - never being totally sure what is in them.

Oddly, both of my boxes have been lightly rubber-stamped “Made in Germany,” with what is obviously the same exact stamp, and applied identically, diagonally across the top label. Likely both boxes were exported to the same importer.

John Moss

#5

John,
Unfortunately, this isn’t my box. It is in a German collection and thus the lack of “Made in Germany”. In truth, I think it is a faded pink.

I am very interested in the date stamp, if any on or inside your boxes. These could indicate when the headstamp styles changed. As you know, box style is a relatively poor indicator of when a box was loaded since companies almost always used up old boxes even after introducing new boxes.

Cheers,
Lew

#6

Lew, I cannot find any lot number or date stamp anywhere on either box. Since the staples seem to me to be a construction improvement, I would guess that the buff box I have is the later box, although I would have thought that the D * * headstamp was earlier than the D GG&Co D 7.65 one.

I know that boxes themselves, in the absence of date codes, are not always a good source for dating ammunition, which is why I wrote the “caution.” It would be nice if we could establish two things about Geco headstamps - the general order in which they appeared, earliest until latest and what the dots on them mean. Actually, a third thing, and that is if the slash mark between the “mm” in the caliber marking has any particular meaning, since Geco and RWS headstamps (by Geco, as we know) are found with both “9 mm” and “9 m/m”. There is also a Geco headstamp with “stars” or “asterisks” (each person’s own choice of description) at the 9 o,oclock and 3 o’clock positions on the headstamp. Wonder what they are all about? I have tried to find answers to all of these questions to no avail. Another of my research failures.

John M.

#7

John,
The place to start is for people to post their boxes, box codes and headstamps on this thread Bob started and we may be able to start.

I agree with you that the D * * headstamps are probably the first and are early post WWI. Here is my first contribution:

image
Hst: D * * Code AE31 which is very likely 1921

#8

Lew,

I will be glad to help if I ever figure out how to put a picture in my computer and then find it again, a task that until I had to take new software to be compatible with my printer, was an easy proposition. Right now, I can’t help, which I regret. I have to have a computer guy come out and show me how to use the scanner on my computer. It is becoming a major expense in my budget.

In the case of the Geco questions, unfortunately, I have a rather poor box selection (early I mean, not post-war where I have a fair collection. They simply have become too expensive for me, especially within the diminished sources I have for finding these things. I do the best I can on the forum, but those factors mentioned is why I am participating less and less in large projects. I regret it, but it is simply a fact of life for me
now.

John

#9

Here are the undated Geco pistol headstamps from between WWI & WWII. I have also included the RWS headstamps since for much of that period the undated RWS pistol rounds were made by Geco. Below are the headstamps I know of (mostly 9mmP) listed in what I think may be the approximate date order.


Please feel free to add other pistol headstamps to this list.Post them and I will add them here.
If you have a box of cartridges with any of these style of headstamps, regardless of the caliber, Please post the headstamp, the box code if any, and ideally the image of the box. Also indicate whether the primer is plain as those shown above or has a ring like the one pictured below.

image

Thanks! This could clear up quite a number of things.

Cheer,
Lew

#10

I have expanded the data on the listing above. If you have other headstamps or other calibers in the headstamps listed, please post them-just typed info is fine-no image required- and I will add them to the list. If you have any boxes with cartridges and a code on the box, please let me know and i will add that information also. Once we have more data, I will try to relist these headstamps by date of usage.

I look forward to your posts!

Cheers,
Lew

#11

Lew, without a cartridige in it, but the box shows production must be before 1945, as the sideflap shows: DRGM (Deutsches REICHS Gebrauchsmuster) which was officially only used till end of 45.
it was the socalled small patent. As ist has no DRGM-Number with it, it cannot be exactly dated, except it must be before 1945.
DRGM Numbers started in 1891 and reached nr 2056 at the end of 1891…
There is a list available, which gives years for Patentnumbers and from 1891 also from DRGM-numbers, which helps dating if patentnumber or DRGM.Number is known.

Here the Geco-Box Shows the letter Code JE on the box…

Here the pics.


PP

#12

Peter, Great box, The Date codes I am using would indicate this box dates from 1929. Does that make sense?

I have a very similar box but the flap just says DGRM and no number or symbol like your box. the code is MK5 indicating a 1932 load date and the loads, headstamped Geco. 6.35. have a ringed primer and the side is marked Sinoxid which fits with the date. I suspect your box is not marked Sinoxid, which fits with a 1929 date. Please confirm your box has no Sinoxid.

I have expanded the headstamp listing above and am storing related boxes as reference info, but will not include them in the listing above.

Many thanks for the input.

Cheers,
Lew

#13

you are right Lew, no “Sinoxid” markings on the box
Peter

#14

Lew has already seen this box.
2 piece with square corners.
Code on back is AE22
Box came with
7-
**
D
and
3-
D
**
Cartridges.
Not sure which headstamp is original to this box.
The
**
D
Headstamp is not common in 6.35 or 7.65.
Lew dated box to 1921
35 35%20a 35%20b 35%20c