I just came from Aarons web site. WOW is an understatement. I was able to id a recent purchase that I did not know what is was. It is a 11.6mm X 14.5mm Galand for the Russian navy. That got me thinking about thick rim cartridges. Aaron shows quite a few different ones. My question is the differance between Galand or Perrin as neither were manufactures in the list he provided. I was going to e-mail him but thought others may be interested in the answer or know the answer.
First of all the manufacturers section on my website currently only has manufacturers of pinfire cartridges. I have not yet linked it to the centerfires or the upcoming European rimfires section. Some of these manufacturers will hopefully overlap too. Also, it is very much a work in progress as I still have many many many manufacturers and cartridges to add.
I am trying to understand exactly what you asked though. Are you wondering what the difference between the Galand and Perrin cartridges are? First, they were made for completely different guns. and are not interchangeable with each other. As a general rule the Perrin cartridges have a covered primer, while the Galand cartridge have an exposed primer. Here is a view of the inside of the Perrin cartridges: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12895
Your particular cartridge was made by Bachmann and has the “Bachmann-style primer.” I guess it was made specifically for the Galand revolvers the Russian navy adopted on March 12 1871. I would assume other 12mm Galand cartridges worked in this gun as well.
I do not believe Perrin or Galand made cartridges, except maybe to test their guns while inventing it. They were mainly made by the common manufacturers of the day.
This made me think of another question though. Does anyone know if this Bachmann is the same “Louis Bachmann” who was a cartridge manufacturer out of Bruxelles, Belgium? And if so, then technically he is already in my manufacturers list!
Thank you Aaron
You answered my question. I had thought that the thick rim was to cover the notch in the cylinder when pinfire guns were converted to center fire, an intrum round from pinfire to center fire. I will take a closer look at the measurements on what I have.
More relabeling s?!#/$?/t, but a little smarter thanks to you.
This was also the case, but I am not completely sure that the cartridges were developed specifically for this, and that the guns came later. More than likely they developed the cartridges and the gun system, with this additional use in mind when creating it.
Just researching Perrin and came across an add for a Perrin revolver at Guns International
gunsinternational.com/VERY-R … =100297306
“Another rare Perrin, This Perrin revolver is a very rare Civil War gun that was imported from France in a quantity of about 500, and it chambered a 12mm (.45 cal.) sealed before it’s time brass cartridge. Very few has survived as all were issued to Union troops between 1862 and 1863. This is a double action revolver.Condition is smooth grey metal with no rust, pitting or sanding. All edges are sharp. Bore on the 5 1/2” barrel has strong rifling, and just recent surface corrosion.The French smooth walnut grips are excellent, and show no wear. A very rugged gun , before it’s time in design.have two of these. Several photos listed.OUR DESCRIPTIONS ARE ACCURATE.THREE DAY INSPECTION ON ALL PURCHASES"
Is this the same 500 guns ordered by the Union because these are not pinfire from what I can see. seller has 2 for sale.
no this is different, many more pinfire revolvers were ordered than that anyway. Here are the exact numbers for the Perrins:
Between January 6, 1862 and May 31, 1862 550 French Perrin revolvers were imported to Major Peter Hagner, of New York, with permission by the Chief Ordnance Officer, Ripley. 1000 were actually ordered, but the other 450 were lost en route.
Also, kind of related, on September 21, 1861 106 Raphael revolvers were imported.
Spent the day with Perrin and Raphea revolvers. Wikipedia claims The Rapheal revolvers were chambered for the Perrin cartridges. I am not sure by measurments that the Galand Russian navy is not the same as the Parrin round I have. I will be glad to share measurements with you on the 12mm and 9mm rounds I have. I do have a 12mm Rapheal round. and will do more research on pistol. I have seen a lot of thick rims in auctions anyone else want to join in