Gaspatrone Kal. 8 mm for Wadie and HS 4 Tear Gas Pistols


#1

I have been asked if I can identify this (presumably a) cartridge.

It is an aluminium cylinder 1" long by .313" (5/16") diameter.

One end has a primer cap, the other appears to be closed by a red seal.

There is no headstamp or markings of any kind.

Is this a flare for some sort of pen flare launcher?

Thanks for any info.


#2

Hi Falcon, this is 8 mm gas cartridge designated “Gaspatrone Kal. 8 mm” which made by Wadie or Diemuni for the Wadie and HS 4 gas and blank pistols. This is a late loading of the same round with brass case originally made for the Schüler pistol of 1932.

Watch out for corrosion!


#3

Thanks Fede. How old is this, and what does the pistol look like?

I tried a quick google search but couldn’t see anything.


#4

This is a post war loading and some sources says it was made until the 1950’s but It could be as late as 1959 because it was included in the Akah catalog of that year.

These are the Wadie and HS 4:


#5

Thanks Fede.

So were these pistols a straight blowback design as the case has no extractor groove?


#6

The “cartridge” was manually inserted into the barrel of the “gas pistol.” It was ignited by a normal blank (for example 6 mm Flobert). The arrangement had the advantage of a larger tear gas load compared to cartridges with the gas included in the blank. But obviously only one shot was possible.
These pistols are purely mechanical, operated by pulling the trigger alone. Only after WW2 (in the sixties?) a blowback model appeared, but as far as I know it could not be used with this barrel insertion cartridge.


#7

Thanks for the replies. I have changed the thread title.

So did the flame produced by the flobert blank penetrate the read seal and ignite the propelling charge in the gas cartridge?


#8

JPeelen, I think you are confusing this cartridge with the EM-GE Gashülsen or similar charge which was ignited by means of a 6 mm blank. This is a self-contained cartridge with a Berdan primer. Also, both pistols are semiautomatic designs (eight and six shots, respectively).

This is the drawing of the aluminum case version patented in 1954:

.


#9

Thanks for the sectioned cartridge drawing Fede.

So after all, are the pistols straight blowback?

For German members: Is it (or was it) legal to carry these gas pistols in Germany?


#10

Falcon, these are open chamber designs and except for the firing/percussion system they do not have any moving parts. The cartridges are held by the pressure of the internal magazine spring against the top of the frame.


#11

Fede, thank you for the correction.

Falcon, German gun law after WW1 is a most complicated matter. The big picture is that these weapons could be owned and carried without a license most of the time and in most parts of Germany. Otherwise there would have been no market for these, sorry, ridiculous contraptions. Today a license is needed even for carrying a blank firing gun. Tear gas (CN) spray is legal. Pepper spray is illegal, execpt against dogs. As we all know, common sense and law are incompatible.


#12

Fede: Once the cartridge is fired, how is the spent case ejected?

JPeelen: Thanks for the summary. Here in the UK these pistols would be in the same legal category (Section 5 - Prohibited) as pistols capable of firing live ammunition.


#13

The case is ejected sideways by the powder gases. This working principle applies to all three pistols designs (Schüler, Wadie and HS 4).


#14

some boxes


#15

Thanks for the box photos Pete.

To everyone:

It appears that some of the boxes in the photos contain flare loads.

Does the red seal on the round I showed in the photo definitely indicate a tear-gas load?