German 13 and 20mm cannon round markings


#1

Please could someone tell me the meaning of the following markings (highlighted in bold) on some German 13 and 20mm cannon rounds:

13x64B, Lacquered steel case:

Case: wg 254g 44 Primer: nhr 408 J2

13x64B, Brass case:

Case: dnf [Waffenamt 61] 42 2d

20x80RB, Brass case:

Case: eek [Waffenamt 75] 41 22h

20x82, Brass plated steel case:

Case: auj [Waffenamt 139] 44 83 Right angled triangle pointing towards primer in top left-hand corner when looking at hstp with “auj” at top.

Thanks in advance for any info.


#2

Falcon, these are all lot markings.

The triangle was used on cases which failed at the acceptance procedure for combat ammunition and were then loaded as TP or blanks. Sometimes even dummy rounds have these markings.

Very few cases have two triangles stamped but about the “real” meaning little is known so far. One is known to be on a blank round (2,8cm sPzB) and the other on a 20x82 MG 151/20.


#3

Thanks, I wasn’t sure whether they wer elot markings or metal analysis codes.

Which factory used the code “nhr”?

As fo the case with the triangl, would a rejected case have been oaded with an M-Geschoss projectile? Also, apparently this is the round that was recovred from a crashed Me109. Would there have been many Me109s on training duties in 1944?


#4

nhr = Rheinmetall-Borsig A.G., Werk S


#5

[quote=“Falcon”]Thanks, I wasn’t sure whether they wer elot markings or metal analysis codes.

Which factory used the code “nhr”?

As fo the case with the triangl, would a rejected case have been oaded with an M-Geschoss projectile? Also, apparently this is the round that was recovred from a crashed Me109. Would there have been many Me109s on training duties in 1944?[/quote]

Hard to say what has been done in the last days of war. What I told above is according to official documents and fits the observations in reality.
I know of practice ammunition and even dummies made in 1945 and to make it more complicated it is reported that late in the war combat sorties were flown with a certain amount of TP cartridges in the ammo belts.
Close to the end of war Germany had a serious shortage of pilots, means new ones had to be trained - with practice ammunition we can assume.
So it is entirely possible that such marked cases can be found on crash sites.


#6

Would there have been such thing as a TP M-Geschoss?


#7

In 20 and 30mm there were plenty - even in 1945.


#8

Did it have an explosive filling or was it an M-Geschoss shell with an inert filler of some sort?


#9

Correct, they were intert loaded.


#10

There must be a shortage of TP ammo. Ive seen loaded 20mm projectiles with dummy fuzes and grey TP color.


#11

What would the markings have been on my projectile if it was a TP? I cannot make out what colour the paint was, but I can still faintly see the remains of the “M” on either side of the projectile and the black line running round it. The fuse is also a fuse for a live charge and not a dummy.


#12

The regular color code for TP after 1940 was grey.

Life fuze components which have been rejected were used for TP projectiles, so it is hard to say.

It is well known but just for in case: 1 photo tells more than 1000 words.


#13

I’ll take a photo as soon as I have time.

Was there an electric and percussion primed version of the MG 151/20 Gun? My 1944 M-Geschoss round has an electric primer, and my 1945 Pzbrgr. round has a percussion primer.


#14

Affirmative, both existed in parallel. Electrical primed ones were used for synchronized guns.


#15

I finally got round to taking the photos:

Whole round (I have not decided yet whether I’m going to fully seat the proj or not):

Headstamp: “auj [Waffenamt 139] 44 83”:

Projectile only:


#16

Falcon could you tell us the black paint markings on the projectile?


#17

They are difficult to make out. All I can see is an “M” either side of the projectile body just underneath the fuse, the two Ms have a black like running between them around the projectile body. Underneath one of the Ms I can also make out what could possibly be “AM” but I am definitely not certain on that.


#18

On the one image the projectile color looks like gone and on the second more like yellow. Could you tell what is visible in reality?


#19

The colour is completely gone, the projectile is a rusty dark brown.


#20

Ah, ok then. So untill you can make a chemical analysis of the inside of the shell you will not know what was inside.