German 1943 7.92x57mm Platz33


#1

I have this German 1943 7.92x57mm Platz33

Manufacturer: Zieh-und Stanswerk G.m.b.H., Werk Schleusingen/Thür., Germany

Steel case 1943 Lot 22. Projectile wooden pointed colour Blue/Green

However the shape and colour of the projectile do not seem correct. I understand that the Platz33 rounds are more rounded and the colour would usually be red-purple or anywhere inbetween. I have a couple of Danish reloads with the same pointed shape of projectile but these are natural coloured wood and they have a circle stamped on the headstamp. At first I thought someone have used inserted another wooden projectile but I can confirm that there was powder and cloth wadding and the projectile was heavily crimped on.

Where there any other countries that reloaded with German cases or where there other German wartime shaped i.e. pointed projectiles like item shown?

Regards



#2

Are those danish 7,92 blank reloads in steel cases? That would be a little unusual. Danish dummies made on steel cases are known, but reloaded blanks are only known in brass cases. Danish dummies have three rings around the case about halfway up.
Soren


#3

Just to follow up and expand on previous post…

I have attached some scans of four rounds. The first is a British 7.92mm, but you can see the circle stamped between the K43 and Z, which I think denotes a Danish reload.

Second from the left is a German Polte round, which also has a circle over the S*, again I believe this indicates a Danish reload. This round also has a
similar pointed projectile as the first. Compare this projectile to the two German ones adjacent. Both the shape of the projectile, with the blunt nose and the step at the case mouth and the purple-red/pink colour i’m told would be typical German Platz projectiles.


#4

In the picture of four rounds, the first two are Danish reloads, without question. The third one was originally a combat load, probably type sS ball, but has been reloaded to a PP33 - absolutely legitimate. Note “sorte” ring on case (one reload). The final one was probably a reject case, but maybe not. Note it has no primer crimps, meaning in this case, the first loading of the case was as a blank. The difference in shade of purple to red in PP33 loads are meaningless, and run the whole spectrum between those two colors. They are never, though, green or pure blue (PP33s I mean - there were blue bullet MG blanks in Germany in WWI and before).

I do not know who did the first one. You find German cases, sometimes with the original primers, used by many countries for blanks and dummies, often with an uncolored wood bullet (Scandinavia, Bulgaria, etc.). I don’t immediately recognize this one though. That is NOT an implication that it is a fake! The 7.9 x 57 is endless in its variations and no one on earth has seen them all.

John Moss


#5

The circle in the first two rounds are reload marks from
Danish Ptronfabrik Otterup,
Ammunition arsenal always used a star as reload marks


#6

John and Torban, thank you very much.

Funny I have just recieved 2 wooden tipped rounds headstamped KYNOCH * 7.9 0r 8mm * which have similar coloured and shaped wooden projectiles. Does anyone know if this company would have re-used as German wartime cases. Would anyone be able to give me an idea on a date for these Kynoch cases?

Michael


#7

I would completely discount any idea that Kynoch would have loaded this case. The blue-wood bullet Kynoch rounds are very well known with some being headstamped for specific MGs like “BREN,” “LEWIS” and “VICKERS” in .303, and with headstamps as you typed in 7.9.

I have never seen one using any case but a Kynoch. Generally their blanks like this were made on brass produced for purpose, and not scrap, reject, fired service cases, etc. That is not true, of course, of all British blanks, which can be found in ball, AP, etc. cases, as I recall, although that is generally in .303.

Just my take on it - could be wrong.

John Moss


#8

I’m learnin’. These are two PP33s that I have. The cases have no rings on the case and crimped primers, so these are first re-loadings to PP33 configuration? The two primers vary in finish. The left has an clear red lacquer and the right one has a red paint of some sort. Is this normal?


#9

They are both legit and known: Look up the P186 list and see:
home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/index_3.htm
As to why they lacquered the primer, my guess would be that Wolfenbüttel made 8 different loads within lot 18 and the rejected primed cases were loaded as blanks. The SmK-H load also had a red lacquered primer (but a cupronickel bullet jacket(!)) maybe the blanks were made on rejected Smk-H cases? It even looks like red painted primers on Platzpatronen were a Wolfenbüttel thing…
Soren


#10

It is an original load.
With an order from 1943 they stopped giving SmK-H rounds to the troops.
It is hard to stop a tank with a 7,9 Mauser round.
They unload the rounds that were on stock, and reused the wolfram for other (bigger) rounds.
From the unloaded cases they made blanks.

Dutch


#11

JoeW
To answer your question as to if it is normal for the color of the primers to vary. Yes it is. As you can see from the scans, yours and mine are the same for the years/lots shown. Although the flat, matt (non-shiny) type as on lot 18 of 1936 is the most common.


#12

Dutch
Wolfram is a word you don’t hear very often in the US. Many years ago when I was in high school I got a chance to go through a gold mine and processing mill in Northern California near a place called Johnstown. It was inactive because they had dug into the bottom of a lake and flooded most of the mine. Gold was only $35 per ounce at the time and the fellow that showed us the mine said it had only been profitable because the quartz also contained wolfram. Well, I had never heard of wolfram before so I asked him what it was. He told us it is another name for tungsten. I have wondered since then if they re-opened the mine after the price of gold went bananas!