German 7.92 mm Mauser Round found in Iraq in 2007


#1

Hello all, I am trying to find out some more information on a 7.92 Mauser round I found in Norther Iraq in 2007 while deployed there. I just found it again in some kit I was cleaning out and started my research.
The head stamp has 4 segments: at the 12 o’clock- it has a Roman numeral VII. So far I think Iv linked it to the Dortmunder-Horder Huttenverin A.G. The 9 o’clock has an Arabic 19, the 3 o’clock has 38. The 6 o’clock has a WWII German Wehrmacht Eagle stamp.
As I said I found this in Norther Iraq back in 07, and have become fascinated with how it could have ended up there. it is in excellent shape for sure. I am pretty sure that it is not a fake as I found it in a cache and this was the only one of its kind in the 100 or so rounds with it.


#2

This should be a rimmed 8x50R Mannlicher, no 7.92x57 Mauser.
Made by Hirtenberger in Austria.

As German Armament was plenty available and in high demand after 1945 (being modern and to most also free) it has found it’s way s into the remotest locations on this planet. So no surprise to see it in Iraq.


#3

Looks more like an 8x56R Austrian Mannlicher round, made in Austria just after the Anschluss.


#4

In this case, the eagle identifies the manufacturer.
Before German occupation, it was an Austrian eagle, used as symbol for Staatsfabrik (state factory) which meant Hirtenberger production for the Austrian state (military). The Germans replaced this by the National-Socialist eagle.
Your association of “VIII” and Dortmund-Hörder Hüttenverein (steel mill) is basically correct, but only in a very limited context, not here. It appears on early German 7.9 mm steel cases always as part of a material code like “VIIIg1” where the Roman number identifies the steel maker and the lowercase letter the factory that made the cups from the steel (g = Hirsch at Finow, the most frequent combination with VIII according to the data collected by Dutch). The number identifies the steel alloy type (mostly 1).
As noted by the previous posts, what you found is not a German 7.9 mm rifle cartridge. (While frequently called Mauser, even by SAAMI, it is not at all a Mauser design. It was entirely created by Prussian military institutions.)


#5

That should be an 8x56R for a M1895 rifle. As far as I know, the only cartridges with a Swastika were this caliber from rds made in the late 30’s, and the obscure 9x25 export Mauser pistol cartridge from around the same time.

M1895:


#6

Matt you are right, it should be the 8x56R Mannlicher.


#7

M30, right?


#8

Here a picture of the original box. My identical cases with Mannlicher clip, come out of this box.


#9

Your catridge shown in the picture has a Roman Numeral VIII (8)
and identifies the month of August. It is not part of any kind of
case-material analysis code.

John Moss


#10

I was told that very large numbers of Austrian rifles in this caliber were floating around after WWII and many, along with their ammunition wound up in the Middle East.

I was in contact with a US Army guy who was sorting through ammo that came out of Iraq after this last war, and a lot of it was exactly this cartridge.

Cheers,
Lew


#11

Last I saw in Angola.


#12

Gents thanks for your input. I am going to add a second picture in this post. Being new to the form i got a message saying I could only post one photo. I am very sure that the round I have is not an 8 × 50 mm R Mannlicher as the projectile looks nothing like that as you will see in this photo respectfully, I still contend that is a 7.92mmx 57 of probably made in Austria in August of 1938.
The Germans annexed Austria in March of 1938, so what I am thinking is that this round was possibly produced in Austria for the war after the Germans leveraged Austria’s arms industry for their purposes to support the war effort

.


#13

If you measure the caselength I am sure you will find it is 56mm. This is most definitely an Austrian 8mm Mannlicher M30.


#14

Dear SMI6989
Thanks for your service.
your rimmed cartridge can not be named a 7.9x57 because that indicates a rimless cartridge by the lack of an R behind the 57. The 8x57R is a sporting round never adopted by the military. And you illustrate a military headstamp. Below is a photo of a 8x57R by DWM and your round photo-sized the same. You note the bullet shape it different but the cases are also of a different shape.
At the bottom is a 7.9x57 ball with a pointed bullet and you will see the case shape of it conforms to the 8mm sporting but not of your 8x56R Mannlicher.
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#15

Hello SMI6989

One of the qualities and strength of this Forum is our common knowledge from all over the world. As we can’t know everything, collecting ammunition is an endless endeavour, we simply ask to each other. I believe most of us enjoy sharing this knowledge.