German 7,92x57 box design


#1

It’s not something I know anything about but the frequent mention of German 15 round boxes for 7,92 ammunition makes me wonder if the design of box remained the same throughout its use? Many other items underwent change as a lack of resources made itself felt, was this the case with boxes? Was there ever a ‘utility’ or ‘ersatz’ model?

Were the boxes supplied ‘flat’ to the packing factories and assembled there? Were the labels attached only after the loaded round was available and the history of all the components known? Hard to imagine whole trains of rail-cars filled with assembled but empty boxes being shuttled round the country. How many different makers are known from the impressed markings inside the boxes and how far were these makers from the ammunition factories?

Maybe the answers aren’t to be had but at least the questions can be asked.

Happy collecting, Peter


#2

They did not ship boxes around the country. The box supplier was in the aria.

The labels were printed, 3x10 labels on one DIN A4 sheet. Later the cartridge and component data was added.

In 1944 the company “oxo” changed production from 7,9 to only 7,9 x 33 ammo
They had still a lot 7,9 Mauser labels (Beklebezettel) on stock.
They were on stock with a blue stripe and printed with a red marking “für Gewehr” .
In this letter WaA asked, if somebody could use them. -:)

Dutch


#3

There was an interesting article about 8 x 33 boxes in the german ECRA newsletter.
Lots of unknown facts about box designs, productions, makers, ect… May be worth to get
the article or contact the author.


#4

For this it might be recommendable to check on Kapell’s new Book.
It has an own chapter on 7.92x33 boxes and packing material.


#5

15-round Cartidge Boxes were supplied Glued but not opened out…the Top of the carton was part of the Bottom, and laid out flat and extended…when it got to the Filling Plant, women workers took the long flap, threaded it thru the rectangular “tube” ( which had already been glued at the Carton factory) and either filled the cartons by hand, (Clipped ammo) or placed it in the magazine of the DWM Cartridge Box Filling Machine ( “ohne ladestriefen”) which, like a cigarette packer, shoved 15(loose) rounds at a time into the carton. The carton then passed down a converyor to other women who folded & fitted the top flap in place, and it was then sealed with the Label.

Although a lot of the carton suppliers were small local concerns, after 1943 when Speer took over Munitions control, there was a lot of shifting from the Big carton producers to the smaller factories, even over long distances, to use up over production in one area and compensate for Bombing Losses etc in others. Flat but glued cartons (due to the design) were easy to ship in large quantities.
Carton makers were Identified by an Embossed Logo in the cardboard ( rather than a “WaA” number.).

An analysis by Carton/Packet collectors of the different Logos should ID (a) how many there were,(b) where cartons from a particular Cartridge filling Plant always the same supplier © Possible ID of the carton makers, if “locally Linked”? and were there more different carton makers before 1942 or later? ( rationalization of production by Speer).

As to the use of 7,9 x33 labels and carton overruns etc, even the Czechs in the early 1950s Packed 7,62x45 in 7,9 cartons and adjusted the labelling ( also a “German” style label) accordingly.

The Carton question is an overlooked area of 7,9 production History.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics
Brisbane, Australia


#6

It’s perhaps a minor point, but I want to point out that WaA [Waffenamt=Ordnance Dept.] numbers don’t identify producers. These indicate ordnance inspection teams, which in some cases can be associated fairly confidently with a single manufacturer, but in other cases, especially in large metropolitan areas, a given WaA number may have appeared on the products of a considerable number of producers. Greater Berlin is, of course, a nightmare in this respect. Jack


#7

I have wrote the article about the 8x33 boxes in the german ECRA newsletter.
A new box I found in the meantime is a qcd 1945.

In my book about the development and production of the 7.9 mm Kurzpatrone the chapter about the use and production of the boxes is from page 51 up to 76.
If someone is interested I can send him a copy of this chapter.

I am always looking for information for my book.

Norbert