German 7,92x57 box makers


In my previous question about box design and possible variations DocAV suggested a list of box makers to find out the correlation between the makers and packing plants. It might be that this work has already been done and is available elsewhere. If this is the case then this will be a bit of a damp squib. If the idea is a new one, then let’s get to it!

Suggestions from wiser heads are very welcome as to information needed and format but for now I’ll try to get the ball rolling with this.

P249. 9. L. 40 MCW 1940

Happy collating!



Where on a 7.9 box is the makers code printed/embossed? I have a P207 (in strips) box from 1940 and the only thing printed (on the box flap inside) is ‘112’, I don’t think 112 is a box makers code .

Addendum: I have two 9 mm (1944 va 1) boxes, one with ‘gon 1943’ and one with ‘jtt 43’ embossed, so two box makers within the same lot is not unknown in 9 mm at least.


Found another one:
Patronen s.S.
P. 94. 24. L. 39 Boxflap embossed with KK and underneath 1939 (*) all in a circle.

(*) Half height of KK


It is great that people are kicking in with information, but there is the problem of their being thousands of 7.9 boxes, and listing them one by one on the Forum is probably futile. There are a few collectors who have collected boxes and information from the boxes in a large way. Perhaps they should form a committee to do this project, unless one or two want to take it on themselves.

Any takers? Phil Butler - have you included the box makers in the wonderful work you have done on box labels in this caliber?

John Moss


No, I didn’t include the box makers in my on-going work. Prior to the changeover from the “P” codes to the one, two and three letter codes (starting in 1940), most of the 7.9mm boxes I have seen have a company logo, monogram or just initials along with the year date. I decided not to include this data because I felt that someone in the US who is not familiar with pre-war German box manufactures would have a pretty tough time trying to determine who all these logos, monograms and initials belonged to.

Now, the boxes that are embossed, or in the case of the 300 round sleeves, printed, with the normal production codes are a different story. These codes can be researched fairly easy but it’s not a job I would want to take on. I am so behind with just about everything I am trying to do that it seems I don’t get anything accomplished.


I have a question that is a kind of adjunct to this thread. The early boxes for German 7.9m/m military cartridges that I’m familiar with hold three loaded clips (either packet or stripper type) with the bullets pointed downward. This packaging is bulkier than the common later type box which holds three stripper clips staggered down-up-down. The early type was the usual packaging for the packet-loaded model 1888 ammunition but seems to have carried over into the early Spitzgeschoss period. Can anyone supply a date at which the later box–the one under discussion here–supplanted the earlier type? Jack


I did ask for comments from wise heads and as I’d hoped both Messrs Moss and Butler have come up trumps. There’s little point in cluttering up the forum with endless posts about this subject so I would suggest that any information is e-mailed to me. I’ll collate it (as other commitments allow) and I’ll post the information elsewhere, linked from here, so it’s accessible to everyone.

I would suggest that the starting point, for the moment, should be the introduction of ‘P’ codes. The end point should be the final lots produced with letter codes in 1945.

I’ve been pondering over what information would be useful and I think, at a bare minimum, there should be the maker, date and lot number together with the box producers code (with a full description of any logo). It wouldn’t be a great deal of extra work to include something like the actual loading but again, I’d appreciate comments on this and anything else that ought to be included.

Trepidatiously, Peter


I don’t do 7.9s anymore and part of the collection is gone. The boxes are going and are all packed. I can’t really unpack them and take the time to do anything about the box makers. They are going to a good home though, and perhaps will get added to any list that comes out of this thread. I hope some does. I Foreign language glossary I tried to start some a year or so ago, and then had a “volunteer” take it over, died on the vine. I haven’t had anytime since to attempt to revive it myself. Unfortunately, this is the fate of many projects that should get done as they are sorely needed.

John Moss


This is a little off the original topic, but I am a very keen collector of German boxes and labelling, particularly 7.9x57 & 7.9x94…perhaps partly due to the non-legislation of possessing cardboard!
I would be very keen to correspond/buy/swap/sell with like minded enthusiasts.

John Moss, I am surprised to learn that you still have any German 7.9 boxes left, I thought Ray Glazbrook and I had ‘stolen’ everything you had back in 1994!

Good Collecting,

Peter Cobb.


Peter - if you and Ray would come back, you could steal more. A couple of really grand Ozzie coppers, you cobbers are. No, I am not going to break into a stanza of "Tie me Kangaroo Down, sport…!!!

John Moss