German 7,9x57 "aux Xm17 61 40" on a "ak 40" charger

These 5 identical rounds came together on a matching year charger. The seller insisted they were dummies. Are they? Each has 2 flash holes.


DSCF1045

Someone stuffed wooden blank bullets into available cases. Due to the danger of taking a very dangerous (at short range) blank for an inert dummy, definitely no official dummies.

The “Xm17” in the headstamp indicates the smelter making the steel (X is a roman 10 for Klöckner, as far as I know), the factory making cups from this steel (m for F. A. Lange Metallwerke of Aue/Saxony) and 17 the experimental steel alloy used.

Do not get misled by the stripper clip year. In 1940, still running on a basically peacetime schedule, Polte would not need to buy chargers from other makers. Stripper clip and fake dummies were “united” much later in my view.

Edit: As a second thought, as far as I know, blanks (Platzpatrone 33) as well as dummies were never issued on stripper clips.

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Jochem, as far I know the 61th lot of 1940 was only made with a sS bullet.
During the war, dummies were not made this way.
Means also for me that these are stuffed cartridges, made after the war.

Between lot 60 of 1940 and lot 2 of 1941 they changed some components of the steel mix.

I don’t know, if you can still call that experimental.

|1|**C 0,19 - 0,24 %,Cu 0,25, Mn 0,6%, Si 0,12%, P 0,03%, S 0,035%
|17|**C 0,17 . 0,22% Al 0,1% other like #1

About your second thought, The Germans packed during WW2 Platzpatronen 33 in clips. Sombody must have ordered them. :sunglasses:

I made you some pictures.


Rgds

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Dutch, there is a chance you need to update your list. There are no primer stabs on the case. Looks like original blanks to me.

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I have noticed that. Perhaps could @sksvlad make a picture from all 5 cases.

Rgds

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Shall post when get home today, glad to help. The wooden projectiles are very wobbly but do sit well in the cartridges, meaning they do not fall out.

Post -WWII, many countries using Kar98K rifles ( Denmark, Holland, etc. Used Drill rounds madefrom spent German cases and Wooden Projectiles usually coloured Red
( .30 and .303 drill rounds also known)

So not necessarily amateur “fakes” or “stuffers”…
Doc AV

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Willem, thank you for the correction regarding blanks in stripper clips.
I used the word experimental for steel type 17, because I am under the impression that of the many steel variants tested in this period, finally the original type 1 made it into large scale production. The other types disappeared again.
The primer pocket shown made me think that this could be a never used case, possibly found when rifling through the Polte factory at Magdeburg, where doubtless also loose wooden bullets could be found. But this may be too much speculation on my part.

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The words “matching year charger” and “the seller instisted” used by Vlad made me think that the seller tried to create the impression these were official German dummies. That made me write my message. I am of course sure, making a little more money was never ever on the sellers mind.

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This is the reason why I asked @sksvlad for a head stamp picture from all five.

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I took 3 photos of each. So everything repeats 5 times.















Vlad, thank you for the additional images. I believe they support my assumption that somebody found unused (never loaded as complete cartridges**) Polte cases. Of course, it is only a gut feeling and I could be thoroughly wrong.

** not live, because of missing primer stabs; not blank, because who would take the trouble to remove the fired Berdan primers just to make dummies ? I believe these cases never had primers.

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Then why is the casemouth crimped like a blank? Looks like it was loaded at one time as a blank.

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Probably I am biased, because I have been offered a few times too often obvious fakes as super rare genuine German cartridges.
Lacking any documentation supporting either my or your position, you are of course entitled to take the cartridges under discussion as the genuine German dummies as which they were offered to Vlad. I simply explained my opinion, why I think the seller lied to him. As a reloader, I am applying case mouth crimps all the time (admittedly, not to steel cases). Therefore, I am sceptical regarding taking crimps as proof of anything.
As I wrote, I could be wrong. But so far, nobody offered a convincing explanation why German armed forces should adopt an inert drill cartridge that no ordinary soldier can tell apart from a dangerous live blank, which, if confused, can easly kill him or one of his comrades.

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The cases are a little bit rusted, and you see some rust powder on the lower part of the bullet which is a little out of the case. I wonder if the primers cup could had been blown out of the case due to the pressure created by the inside corrosion of the case?

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I add the normal box with the aux 61 40 cartridges.


aux 1 L 41 Inhalt neu
Norbert

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