German 7,9x57 "hla S✩ 4 44"

My qustion is about a little star after “S”. Usually it is a 6 spike star resembling Magen David :star_of_david:︎. At least this Jewish star was used historically on ammo over a long time. But ✩ was used by both Red Army and American Armed Forces, like Army Air Force, and by 1944 well known to all Germans. Wouldn’t it be risky to change the design at that time? I lived in a similar paranoid state like Germany for 20 years, and a small thing like this would be definitely exploited for revenge or self promotion.

A Jewish star was also used by Germans to mark export materials

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I don’t think this kind of idea was in their mind as they mixed up different “models”: five points, six points, dot-like… Yes Vlad, paranoia it is.

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despite all the defects that the Germans had and the insane convictions that moved them, they were very precise in their creations and production of material. Almost nothing was done randomly / for no reason / without a specific code. I am not sure but it seems to me that in the Kent there could be an explanation for this. Or in someother book related to. I have to check if I correctly remember.
it could also indicate the different percentage of copper and zinc in the brass alloy, as an hypothesis

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Let’s wait to dutch…

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Each case factory had its own headstamp bunters
That 's why you see different stars but the meaning of all the different stars is the same.

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After WW1 the Germans had still a lot of brass with a 67% copper mix.
In November 1923 Polte started with the production from an “S” cartridge.
In 1921 and 1922, they already made Ex rounds. They used the brass left from WW1.
Later in 1926 the mix changed in 72% copper.

P26

To make this visible a star was seen behind the “S”. This “S” did not mean “Spitzgeschoss” (Pointed bullet) known from WW1, but was an indication for a brass case.

As far I know, I have never seen a document describing how this star had to look.

Rgds

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Thanks for your explanation. I understand that “S” designates “brass” but none of German words for brass-like metal I know start with “S”. So could “S” mean “Style” or some other word? It couldn’t be random.

After WW1 the character “S” on the head stamp had another meaning.
In WW1 the meaning was Spitz, to make a difference against the Patrone 88.

By the introduction from the SmK (Core) ammunition, this marking was replaced on this particular round to a “K”, a shortage from Kern. The marking of all brass cases returned to "S67” in the beginning of 1917. The core ammunition has a red anulus. In the meantime, also the sS (heavy ball) was introduced with a green anulus.

After WW1 the first lots the Germans made had a “S” in the head stamp. I must be honest, I don’t know why this change was done. Perhaps against the steel case used during WW1.

Perhaps a fellow collector has this information.

Rgds

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We have to consider that cases for Patrone 88 (Gewehr 88 still in the inventory 1914) had a different case neck from the cases for the S-Patrone (larger bullet diameter).
In my opinion the “S” after WW1 simply continued to indicate that the case had the correct neck dimensions for the standard S bullet and its variations like SmK or sS.
The asterisk was added to show the return to the peacetime brass alloy with 72 percent copper.

That was before Hitler and nobody cared if an asterisk had 5 or 6 spikes. Even today, nobody outside the hardcore cartridge collector community is aware that Hirtenberger cases had a 5 spike and a 6 spike asterisk.

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Just to complete the star/asterisk matter on 7,92 German cartridges, here a hs with S forgotten

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The star started by “asb” by the 8th lot of 1940 until the 3th lot of 1941.

The guy who made the bunter came probably from the 9mm production were the “S” was unknown. :slight_smile:

Some of these mistakes happened more than once.
A nice example is the introduction from the St+ by “fer”. The information is normally going to the higher management, but to the person who made the bunter was a long way.
They started in 1943 with the new St+, but instead a “+” they made a star. It took over a year to find out they did something wrong. Problem fixed between lot 7 and 8 in 1944.

Rgds

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