German 9mm Nahpatrone Cartridges


#1

I am doing an article on the various Nahpatrone cartridges and boxes. The earliest documentation I have besides cartridges and boxes is some Polte drawings of various Nahpatrone rounds, but not the one that was produced. These date from May to August 1942. The production Polte rounds documented are all headstamped lot 33 of 1942, just before production of P08 stopped at Polte.

Does anyone know when Polte stopped producing 9x19mm cases???

They continued loading P08 ammunition, at least the Nahpartrone into 1943 and I wouldn’t be surprised to see normal ball rounds in boxes with 1943 load dates, but haven’t documented any. I know their are late 42 aux cases loaded with the zinc color 08/40 primers which tend to be later in the war.

Does anyone have any drawings or other documentation of the normal green case Nahpatrone green case cartridges or even the “X” headstamped cartridges???

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Lew


#2

Lew,

In the list I have is lot 34 of 1942 known.

No sorry, I cannot Show you the head stamp. :)

Rgds


#3

Dutch,
Thanks for your reply. Lot 34 of 42 is the highest that has been recorded. I have spoken to a friend who collects many 9mm boxes. he has a box where the load is Lot 34 of 1942, with the cases also lot 34 of 42. he also has the box for the last known Polte 9mm P08 production with the load lot, 1 of 1943. This implies to me that it is very probably that case production at Polte continued through the end of 1942 and the last cases of mE loads were finished in early 1943. This would indicate that case lots 33 and 34 of 1942 were likely produced in November/December of 1942 and loaded in this same time or into early 1943.

Is this consistent with your data on 79 production???

This helps me out a lot.

Cheers,
Lew


#4

Lew,

The production from 7,9 Mauser by Polte in 1942 is very limited.
I know of 7 brass and 6 steel cased lots. The brass was mostly loaded as PmK and tracer for the air force. The steel cased ammo is only known as blank 33.

Please don’t forget that Polte used the 7,9 machines 1942 also for the new 8x33 Stg cartridge.

In 1943 they were full in 7,9 production. They made 120 lots, 115 steel and 5 of brass.
Also 19 lots of 8x33 Stg were made.
Probably the 9mm machinery went to other facilities.

Just a thought, the DWM factory in Karlsruhe faa/suk started the production from the 9mm again in 1942 with 5 lots and increased in 1943 to 19 lots.
They stopped the production (P28) of 9mm and 8x57 in 1939 and I don’t think the loading machinery stayed all the years in the basement by DWM.

An other possibility, the Polte machinery went to Hugo Schneider A.G. in Leipzig “wa”. They also start to produce 9mm in 1942 with 10 lots and increasing 1943 to 25 lots.

Just a thought. -:)

Rgds
Dutch


#5

Thanks Dutch, That makes sense.

You wrote:

Is this a suspicion or is there some documentation. If it is known, then it may mean that the 9mm tooling left Polte before the end of 1942 which would complicate learning the approximate production date of the aux St+ 34 42 cases.

All,

Most production lines I have seen were capable of making any small arms caliber and only the tooling was changed.

I don’t know much/anything about German WWII tooling, but I did see some pre-WWII (1930s) tooling in the Greek Powder company in 1975 and it was sized for pistol.

Does anyone know if German cartridge machinery was built specifically for pistol calibers or for rifle calibers??? Or, was it (or some of it) built for any small arms caliber?

I seem to remember that the US WWII equipment was pretty standard and would handle both pistol and rifle calibers, but could be wrong. Does anyone know for sure?

Production processes and tooling tell us a lot of the history of factories and cartridges, but I have found almost nothing on the subject. I have never seen a German WWII headstamp bunter. I also don’t know what happened to the German production equipment at the end of the war. The US was giving it’s extra equipment to the French and lots of other countries at the end of the war.

Does anyone have any of the German production tooling like the headstamp bunters or any documentation on the production equipment?

I suspect some of the equipment in the occupied countries like Poland and Czechoslovakia was original to those factories, as was the equipment at FN and Hirtenberg. Great field for some serious research.

Cheers,
Lew