German 9x19mm CWS case and related rounds


#1

Rolf F sent me a listing of the headstamps he has on CWS case rounds and related steel case rounds. I have updated it with what I have or have documented and here it is. I don’t think this checklist has been published before.

Any additions would be greatly appreciated. If you have a box for any of these rounds, please let us know.

All the following are copper washed steel cases ball loads (including proof loads) unless otherwise indicated

Cheers,
Lew & Rolf

Cassel Arsenal
C 11 17 (Foerster needs)

Spandau Arsenal
S 6, 12 17 (Woodin Lab has 12 17, 7 17 reported to exist-not confirmed) (Foerster need)

Geco
Ge 2 D 18 (Curtis & Foerster need)
Geco 9m/m
Geco 9mm
Geco 10 lobe copper washed steel case blank with a ringed primer and bare steel case groove (Curtis & Foerster need)
P405 * 1 40 (Curtis & Foerster need)
P405 IXf1 1 40
P405 VIIf1 2 40 (Foerster needs)
dnh * 1 41 (Curtis needs)
dnh VIIf1 1 41
dnh St 1 41

Polte, Magdeburg
P Va2 Ex 38 Nickel plated steel case
P Ex 38 & 39 Nickel plated steel cases-must test the center of the base-Steel bullet jackets extent to casehead
P St 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 39
P Xf1 9 39
P Xf1 2 40
aux Xf1 2 40 (Curtis & Foerster need)
aux St 1 41
Box label exists showing a steel case lot 2 of 1934. This may be a sample label, but the existance of a cartridge is possible

Metallwarenfabrik Treuenbrietzen
P25 VIIa1 1 41 Lacquered Steel Case

Dynamit AG
P120 IVf1 1 39 (Foerster needs)
P120 Xf1 1, 2 40
emp Xf1 1 41
emp St 2, 3, 4 41

DWM Berlin Borsigwalde
P131 IXb1 1 39
P131 Vb1 2, 4 40
P131 VIIb1 1, 5 40
P131 VIIIb1 9 40
P131 IXb1 8, 10, 11 40
P131 * 14 40
P131 IXb1 15 40 (serifs on the characters) (Foerster needs)
asb IXb1 17 thru 22 40
asb St 1, 2, 3 41

Mansfeld AG
fb IXfa17 1 14 Lacquered case

RWS
dnf VIIf1 1 14 (Curtis & Foerster need)

DWM Karlsruhe
DWM K (no serifs) (Curtis & Foerster need)


#2

Hi, Lew

I am not sure, is it really addition to this great list, but here is a headstamp from my collection
To avoid mistake I place a picture


#3

Very interesting headstamp. I have never seen a P405 case without a material code of any kind (St or * or IXf1 or whatever)! It doesn’t totally surprise me since there is a dnh headstamp with no material code of any kind on a brass case.

Great Headstamp!!! WOW!!!

Please confirm that it is a Copper Wash Steel case. It looks like it is, but on old cases it is sometimes hard to be sure.

Many thanks for the informaiton.

Cheers,

Lew


#4

Yes, it is magnetic, so CWS
The condition of this case is quite new, it only has a spots of powder deposit. because cartridge was fired at militia shooting range some monthes ago

I have two such cases absolutely identical and can send you spare one


#5

Wonderful!!! I have sent you an email. You have made my day!!!

Many thanks,
Lew


#6

If anyone has, or knows of any examples of the German steel case 9mmP08 rounds from WWI, even if they are ones listed, please post them or let me know. It is hard to believe that there are only the 5 or 6 specimens that I have documented.

Thanks everyone,
Lew


#7

Treshkin - great headstamp. Thanks for posting such a good picture of it.

Lew - You and Rolf have gone so far with this list that I don’t understand why you don’t includie the variations within each headstamp of the same lot number - color seals primarily. There are evidently not that many, and the list might as well be really complete. It is a great list, and worthy of the very tiny extra effort it would take to make it truly a complete list of known CWS German variations. I would even include the post war ones. Agen, there are not so many as to make it a tough chore, or an unwieldy document.


#8

John, Good suggestion. Rolf’s list included the bullet load variations, Load types like the P St CWS proof, and in the commercial the primer & cms variations. Frankly, I didn’t have the time to do all that on my part of the list so I stripped it down to only headstamps.

Rolf also provided some headstamp and box photos. I had no time to add mine so those went.

With the post war MEN steel case vcolor variations, you would need to picture these. We (meaning me) may have time to do all this. I think if we do I will offer it to Chris for the IAA Journal.

Good suggestions—if there was only more time.

Cheers,

Lew


#9

Just for the record, I will note these rounds from my own collection. NONE are headstamps that are not already on the Curtis/Foerster list.

P405 IXf1 1 40 Black PA
Red PA and CMS, “O” (Sinoxid) primer
Red PA and CMS, plain primer

dnh St 1 41 Black PA
Red PA & CMS

P St 2 39 Blackened m.E. bullet jacket

P St 6 39 Green-base proof load

Unless Lew wants, I will not bother to list the post-war MEN and Geco CWS (and related case finishes) steel cases rounds. Those with really good 9 mm Para collections, I think, have many more than do I. If really need, I can list them, and I can photograph them.

On retrospect, perhaps the list should only include the Pre-1946 rounds, as the post-war experiments, while interesting to any 9 mm collector, are not nearly so important in the story of German 9 mm Para ammunition as the pre-1946 rounds. To me, they kind of come under the “been there, done that” umbrella.

emp St 3 41 GMCS Bullet
Blackened jacket m.E. bullet

P


#10

[quote=“treshkin”]Hi, Lew

I am not sure, is it really addition to this great list, but here is a headstamp from my collection
To avoid mistake I place a picture

[/quote]

Just doing some Renovations, came across four boxes of these, all look in good condition not fired. The box is stamped 1939.


#11

Look forward to hearing more about these. Photos/scans of the headstamp and box labels would be great!

Good thing I am leaving for Australia tomorrow!!!

Cheers,
Lew


#12

Lew,

did you ever update Rolf on the Cassel 10 17 you got from me ?

Cheers
René

PS please bring me an Aussi-made 30-06 if you find one


#13

That case was a recent range pick-up, and was recently fired!? Wow - I commend you for your diligence in sorting through such scrap. One never knows what they will find in the range scrap.