German Unknown Gun/Ammo


#1

I really had no clue what to title this thread. I found this picture while searching the net and it confuses me to no end. It appears these 2 different guns are hooked up to some type of compressed gas? What is this? It could be a opticle illusion, but it looks like their are hoses connected to the guns. Anyone have a idea on this one? Could the gas be used to increase the bullets velocity somehow? I am mental on this.

Jason


#2

Very curious. One gun looks like a MP18 or 28 Bergman or Schmeisser SMG and the other looks like a FG-42, usually 9 x 19mm and 8 x 57mm respectively.

Looks like both had hoses feeding into the barrel/chamber area.

Possibly work on some sort of compressed gas training version?
Maybe a test where variable amounts of pressure could be injected into the barrel to observe the effect on some of the action parts?

Strange.


#3

Really cleaver thinking John! It is driving me nuts. I like your theories. Definitely something I have never seen before.

Jason


#4

One thing I noticed is that the bore opening that is visible seems to be very small, like the gun shoots a 22 or something. I am not familiar with either gun. I wonder if the barrel is plugged which would support your theories?

Jason


#5

I could be mistaken, but it looks like there is an open tin of airgun pellets in the white tray.
My best guess would be that they are using reduced bore diameter barrels and continuous compressed air for some kind of full-auto machinegun training. I do not see a feeding device though, so I could be way off.


#6

I think I can go with the subcalibre training version using compressed air to work the action.

Next to the box of what looks like subcalibre rounds there is a drum magazine visible.

They were fond of the 4mm training rounds, by using a dummy round, with the subcalibre round in the tip, combined with compressed air to work the action, I guess it would have simulated shooting the guns in a satisfactory way, at least as a training aid.


#7

[quote=“John S.”]Very curious. One gun looks like a MP18 or 28 Bergman or Schmeisser SMG and the other looks like a FG-42, usually 9 x 19mm and 8 x 57mm respectively.

Looks like both had hoses feeding into the barrel/chamber area.

Possibly work on some sort of compressed gas training version?
Maybe a test where variable amounts of pressure could be injected into the barrel to observe the effect on some of the action parts?

Strange.[/quote]

John, that on the right is a MG30 from Solothurn, certainly no FG-42. The SMG I can’t say for sure (the Swiss had similar ones) but this whole might be a Swiss thing.


#8

I certainly recall seeing a photograph of an MP-18 converted to work via compressed air for training, but the picture I saw showed a soldier with the complete apparatus carried on his back (tanks, hoses, and all), so it wouldn’t surprise me that they had worked out similar systems for other firearms as well. I’ll see if I can find it in one of my books.


#9

I can’t remember the details any more, maybe John Moss will recall, but years ago, in the USA, there were some novelty BB guns that worked on compressed air. They used a small cylinder like you found on certain pellet rifles. Well, it wasn’t too long before guys found a way to convert them to full auto using a tank of compressed air. The BB’s shot out almost like a stream of water. It didn’t take long for the novelty to wear off because you needed an unlimited supply of BBs to shoot them.

Ray


#10

Ray - sorry, can’t help. Our gun shop was in San Francisco. San Francisco banned the sale of air guns either when I was a little kid or before I was born. Not part of the current anti-gun stuff; was due, I think, to property damage done with BB guns by kids. At any rate, I have no knowledge of them, and don’t know anything about the apparatus show. My first take was that it was simply an MG30 with a blank-fire adaptor next to some sort of tanks, and an MP18 or 28 (hard to tell from that picture) simply laid across one of them. On enlarging it, it does look like the MP is connected up to them. Beats me though. Never seen such a thing. Not covered in Chinn’s MG books, that i can find although the Solothurn gun is of course. I don’t have a lot of works on MGs - some, such as “German Machineguns”, books on the Brownings, Chinn’s series, etc. - since in my lifetime you have never been able to own an MG in California. They were, therefore, only of peripheral interest to me, so my library can’t have more than seven or eight reference books on them, I think. Sorry I can’t be of help.


#11

I agree with EOD that the LMG is an MG30 and I think the SMG is probably a Steyr Solothurn, so I’d guess the scene is Switzerland or Austria, and the photo a promotional effort by the manufacturers (Steyr or Steyr Solothurn) to show training possibilities with these arms. Where is our Doc AV? JG


#12

Surfing around a little and found this:

MacGlashan
During World War II, the Army and Navy used thousands of MacGlashan BB machine guns to teach the fundamentals of aerial gunnery. This much larger gun is cycled by an electric solenoid and powered by compressed air. The air pressure is higher, at 180-200 psi, but the velocity runs between 500 and 600 f.p.s. Working MacGlashans are more expensive than Feltmans, but not unaffordable. They shoot run-of-the-mill steel BBs, so the operating cost is quite low.

Ray


#13

Some of the re-enactment fellows use compressed gas to produce realistic sounding MG fire. Sometimes simply compressed air and a mechanism like an air hammer, sometimes propane gas which also gives a muzzle flash. I don’t know if that is what we are seeing, the photo looks fairly old, maybe the lack of colour fools me that way.

gravelbelly


#14

Great info. One more thing I forgot to mention was that the picture was found in a German WW2 photo album.

Jason


#15

Then we can forget what I said about the re-enactment guys.

gravelbelly