Greek 7.9mm Hotchkiss


#1

In another thread (Greek 7.92x36) John Moss makes mention of a 7.92 Hotchkiss loading from the Greek Powder & Cartridge Co. Ltd.

I have a picture of a box label (not mine) that says “Hotchkiss 7.92 x μ”. What does the “μ” (Greek small letter Mu) denote? The ammo is apparently a product of Fabrique Solothurn, Switzerland.

I have a couple of 1927 dated rounds with “FS” in the headstamp. The bullets have an “S” ball ojive but are heavier (404 grains) than the normal “S” ball so they might be the type that originally came in the box but I am not sure.

Has anyone seen a box with Greek manufactured cartridges that is labeled for the Hotchkiss MG and what makes them different from the normal ball rounds?


#2

Phil: I think the two Greek letters following 7.92 represent millimeter. I suppose that’s chi-mu. Jack


#3

Yes, the “χμ” is an abbreviation for “χιλιοστόμετρα” the millimeter (mm.) .

I have seen a box of them in the Greek Army History Service warehouse. The cartridges you have are original and these rounds were loaded with a heavier bullet in a higher pressure than normal to achieve better ballistic characteristics and reliable loading.


#4

Thanks Jack and aris


#5

I asked if anyone has seen a box with Greek manufactured cartridges that is labeled for the Hotchkiss MG. Well it looks like I might have had one all the time. The label reads ΔΙΑ ΠΟΛ/ΛΑ ΧΟΤΣΚΙΣ - FOR “CHOTSKIS” LIGHT MACHINEGUNS which I take as meaning “Hotchkiss”. If I am mistaken I am sure someone who can really read Greek will point it out.

The label also says “ΦΥΣΙΓΓΙΑ ΔΙΑΤΡΗΤΙΚΑ” – perforating bullet. The only Greek AP headstamp I know of (besides the 1940 contract for the UK) is Ε ΕΠΚ Σ 40. The box is empty so I don’t know what the original headstamps were.

One line appears to be a warning. It starts “NOT …………… and the printing gets poor and I can’t make out all the letters. Someone fluent in Greek might be able to interpolate what it says.


#6

A little tangental to the topic…just a couple of headstamp variations. The '40 dated round has a GMCS projectile while the other 2 have GM jackets and are not magnetic.



#7

the warning is “ΑΝΕΥ ΤΡΟΧΙΟΔΕΙΚΤΟΥ” witch means “WITHOUT TRACER” .


#8

aris – Thanks a lot for all your help. I really appreciate it. I now know a lot more about Greek box inscriptions than I did a couple of days ago.


#9

If anybody needs a translation from Greek, please post it.


#10

To continue this interesting discussion about greek headstamps and cartridge boxes, I would like to ask a question about well known Greek headstamp EK on cartridges made by Greek Powder and Cartridge co. What means these letters E K?

I have only an assumption that this is abbreviation from the company ΕΤΑΙΡΙΑ ΕΛΛΗΝ. ΠΥΡΙΤΙΔOΠΟΙΕΙΟΥ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΛYΚΟΠΟΙΕΙΟΥ, i.e. something like Greek Cartridges. But this is only my hypothesis


#11

Correct the normal should be Ε Π Κ (if you see the previous attached pictures there is a Π between the E and the K). Apparently the company at some time for export clients used only the E and K because Π does not exist in any other alphabet.

By the way the headstamp used now is EAS .


#12

Thank you, aris for comment. I understand that EK is a commercial variant of EПК headstamp

Is it correct to read EK as ΕΛΛΗΝ. ΚΑΛYΚΟΠΟΙΕΙΟΥ (Greek cartridges - as shortened name of Greek powder and cartridge company) or this is only company logo, which can’t be deciphered?


#13

Something else that I learned is that Eley-Kynoch actually once made a formal complain about the use of the same headstamp, then ΕΠΚ stopped using it so there is a great possibility that a cartridge that was in production from both companies it is impossible to tell which is which!!


#14

I think that the Eley Kynoch complaint was more a matter of principle, as Kynoch never used the “E K” headstamp on metallic ammunition as far as I know.

Regards
TonyE


#15

I think that the Eley Kynoch complaint was more a matter of principle, as Kynoch never used the “E K” headstamp on metallic ammunition as far as I know.

Regards
TonyE[/quote]

I really don’t know either, the truth is that the company archives have a file on the complain , and the respond to it that ΕΠΚ will not use this headstamp again , both letters are very formal and polite.


#16

Found also a Greek box.
I don`t know what cartridges belong to this box.

451kr.


#17

The box on the right says:

"GREEK ARMY

10 CARTRIDGES BALL

FOR MAUSER RIFLES

OF 7,92

MANUFACTURE 1941 "

The one on the left has the EΠK’s name on and Athens


#18

There is a later dated and more commonly encountered box that is labeled “ΔI’ ΑΥΤΟΜΑΤΑ ΟΠΛΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΥΦΕΚΙΑ” (For Machineguns and Rifles). The correct headstamp for this box is “Ε ΕΠΚ Σ 52”. This might be the last military 7.92mm box and headstamp produced in Greece. Has anyone seen later dates?



#19

Aris,

Thanks for the translation.

451kr.


#20

ΕΠΚ has produced the last batch in 1954 according to its records.