Green neck seal on Romanian military 7.62x39mm?


#1

Is a green neck seal common with Romanian 7.62x39mm military ammunition?

SOG is advertising this ammunition as Romanian with a green neck seal, typical steel cartridge case, lead core FMJ bullet in 700rd spam cans. No headstamp shown and the top of the pictured span can is not readable. southernohiogun.com/ammo/rom … iGWCGVTH8=

SOG describes this as Romanian military ammo.

Thanks,

Brian


#2

Here is a better link to what appears to be the same or similar item. Headstamp looks to be CADU.
royaltigerimports.com/shop.h … d=27905048

Joe

Edit: looks to be newer U.S. commercial import production. Looks like 7.62 and 04 on the headstamp.

Edit again: I had the wrong link posted, changed it.


#3

Joe,

Thanks for the response.

I wonder if “CADU” is actually “SADU”?

The possible 04 on the headstamp indicates 2004?

But in a previous discussion ( umsadu.ro) stopped using numerical codes in 2006 and is using “SADU” in hs since…"

SADU is using a green neck seal on the 8x57mm JS production with lead core FMJ bullet ( viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15048 ) and the above mentioned 7.62x39mm with green neck seal and lead core FMJ bullet, a possible SADU product. So is SADU using a green neck seal on lead core FMJ ammunition and red neck seal on mild steel core FMJ (LPS) ammunition (example: Romanian 7.92x57mm LPS ammunition from the 1970’s with red neck seal)?

All speculation until more info becomes available and we see the cartridge and HS.

Brian


#4

2004 with “SADU” applied to the hs would suprise me as it was not observed before and also the company representative said 2006 was the year when they switched from the numerical code to “SADU”.


#5

7.62x54r/07/CADU headstamp, 17th posting down and look at his posted pictures. forums.gunboards.com/archive/ind … 97156.html Looks like SADU to me and not CADU. Also the picture of the 7.62x39 link I posted earlier, was the wrong link. I have since fixed it.

royaltigerimports.com/shop.h … d=27905048

Joe


#6

Thanks for the link Joe!

To what I can see (and guess) it is the “normal” hs: 7.62 SADU 10


#7

I looked at it and I surely feel it looks like 04 to me. I have an very good quality Samsung monitor and with my cheater glasses, I definately see an 04.

Joe


#8

I can’t help myself. Using a Samsung monitor too I see a “10”. But we are talking about a fuzzy hs image here.
Maybe someone here got his hands on these already and can shed some light on this?


#9

Alex, I bought last week a new Samsung SB970 S27B970D 27-Inch Screen LED-Lit Monitor. It is 100 times better than the old ones I have had. I hated spending the cash, but I found an open box one on ebay for $800. It is without a doubt the best and clearest picture I have ever had on a monitor.

Anyways, it looks seemingly clear to me to be a 04. I will call them tomorrow and ask, how about that. I have ordered from them before and have my FFL registered with them, so I hope they will answer my question. I am sure they are closed for the day now.

This is going to be very interesting.
If they say it is a “10” I am sending this monitor back, Ha-ha.

Joe


#10

Joe, when reading “04” it would be read from the primer side but not fit the rest of the hs then. Means the SADU is at 12h and the “7.62 10” do read like at a 6h pos.
If reading “04” it would distort the entire hs. Just my thought.

Image quality: I think it is more depending on the image resolution than on the monitor as even a good monitor can’t make up for a low resolution of the original image.

I am curious to hear what the dealer will answer.


#11

I see what you are saying. I adjusted the resolution on my screen different ways and now you have me seeing a possible “10”.

Yes, you can have the best monitor made and if the picture quality is not up to par it will not help.

Joe


#12

FWIW even with such a marginal image when I enlarge it on the computer screen it does appear to be ‘04’, like Joe said. I even turned the image upside and on at least on one cartridge the HS appears to have a ‘04’. Unfortunately this still doesn’t prove anything. The only proof is if someone comes up with a cartridge that has the HS.

Brian


#13

I agree with Alex, the way this is readed suggest a SADU 7,62 10 headstamp. Also, the spam cam lot numbers are U01/11 and U02/11, which would be correct for a cartridge with a case made in 2010.


#14

Fede, Yes I noticed that, but did not put two and two together. Well I am not going to buy a can to find out. I will see what kind of an answer I can get tomorrow. I bet it is a “1” with a little bit of a hangover on the top.

Joe


#15

For those of us who are uninformed, if the Romanian 7.62x39mm spam can lot numbers are U01/11 and U02/11, how does this correlate to 2010 production?

Brian


#16

Brian, is not unusual for Sadu using headstamps of the previous year in first lots of the production in course. For example, I have seen this in lots 01/07 and 02/07 (headstamp dated 2006), 01/08 (headstamp dated 2007) and 01/09 (headstamp dated 2008).


#17

Fede,

Thanks for the explanation.

Brian


#18

Brian, this is also not a unique thing to SADU. It is just the order in which things are getting done. Means first all components have to be produced and when that is done the actual loading and packing starts. Depending on lot sizes (and orders) it may well expand over the turn of the year. This is observed with almost any manufacturer.

There are also small side notes where manufacturers kept on with a previous year on the hs as part of the lot was made there already and they wanted the hs to be the same (or not change bunters).
Also I have seen more than once üredated years (for the year to come) as that was the planned year of delivery and the hs was also supposed to reflect this.

Keep in mind that application of hs is much more “flexible” than many people assume.

A recent issue with Russian commercial 9x39 was rounds that were packed and lot numbered (on the box) as 2012 and the cases had headstamps from 2002. Nobody ever found out if that was some sort of mistake or if they were just using cases that were left over from not delivered case lot (or maybe rejected from the MIA and then following traditions being used up on the commercial market as the customer there has to “sit”).


#19

I called Royal Tiger Imports several times, but they are not answering the phone. Doesn’t really matter, as a good friend and fellow cartridge collector came over last night for a regular visit and 7.62X39 happens to be his specialty. Some of you may know him, Peter Gorbenko. As Soon as he walked into my office, he did state “Wow, did you get a new monitor” I then went all giddy and told him all about my expensive toy. Anyways I directed him to this discussion and he looked but could not decide either, only to agree with Alex that 2006 is supposedly the start of the SADU headstamp. He works for Dillon Precision and usually gets to do the Shot Show and the trade show in Europe, so he stays well informed. He also agrees with Fede’s point about the can date code and headstamp being no more than a couple of years off at the most. So I think I will send my new monitor back! Just kidding, I love my new monitor, but like Alex points out, it is no help with improving mediocre graphics.

Joe


#20

They are SADU 10 7.62x39 to SADU 13 7.62x39 headstamps. I have a few cans. They use a heavy characteristic Romanian sealant covering the whole primer, and changed from red to green sometime around 2009-2010 for the lead core ball. The Romanians use a separate bullet profile for the lead core as well, appearing to be a short, flat based m67 style projectile, where as the soviets retained the M43 BT jacket and just made up for the difference in lead being more dense than the steel insert by leaving a large air gap in the nose, tamping a lead core not all the way to the nose. The Romanian lead core is almost all the way filled with lead, and hence a shorter projectile with a non-m43 jacket design. This is almost 100% a pure commercial venture BTW and started sometime around 2005 with century arms prodding it along. It is very good ammo BTW, fully sealed ect…

The green sealant seems to be a trend on commie produced lead core, with China, Bulgaria, and now Romania all producing lead core with only green sealant. Maybe coincidentally, this green sealant use also seems to 100% coincide with the use of a new “lead core only” style of shorter jacket.