Greener MarkI shotshell


#1

This is coming from a website page martinihenry.com/faq.htm

After W.W.I, the Egyptian Government sought a weapon suitable for arming their police force. W.W. Greener won the contract with their submission of a handy, smoothbore Martini actioned shotgun with a full length wood forend. These shotguns were known as the Greener Mark I/14. The “14” referred to the bore size. One of the clever features of the new shotgun was that it used an off size 14 1/2 gauge straight sided shot shell. This prevented the weapon’s use with commercially available shotgun shells. Thus, if the weapon fell into the wrong hands, it couldn’t be used against the Egyptian Police. Greener referred to this cartridge as “14 bore for use in Mark I guns”. These cartridges were made by Kynoch. . By 1922, over 30,000 Greeners had been supplied. In the 1930’s, it was discovered that stolen Mark I’s were being used against the authorities by wrapping a thick piece of paper around standard 16 gauge shot shells. Greener answered this problem with the Greener Police Gun Mark III. The Mark III was chambered for three different shells: the original 14 1/2 gauge Mark I shells, standard 12 gauge 2 3/4" shells and a special bottlenecked shell for the Egyptians. The Mark III bottle necked shell was .782" diameter at the base, and was necked down to .740". Overall length of the shell was 2 7/8".

has anybody info on the 14 1/2 Gauge ?
I asked to the website owner but he never repplied .

Thanks


#2

Another interesting feature of the Mk III is that they were designed with an unusual “trident” firing-pin, to preclude the use of wrapped smaller-gauge ammunition in them. The proper rounds for these have a deep groove around the primer, so the two outer arms of the trident go into that groove when the firing-pin goes forward to strike the primer, but those outer arms would strike the solid head of a regular shotshell that was wrapped and forced to fit.


#3

Could that not be altered by taking the weapon apart and filing off the two outer pieces of the trident pin?


#4

The MKIII is very well known, described and documented in all the books and in many websites including the one where the text is coming from .
The question was on the MK I.
Has anybody info on it ?
thanks


#5

The description sounds sort of odd, but it sounds like he IS talking about the Mark III “necked” round, where the base of the shell is the same as on a 12 gauge, but the forward part of the shell is necked down to 14 gauge.
Since “gun control” laws actually “control” guns about as well as “heroin control” laws “control” heroin and “prostitution control” laws “control” prostitution, none of these ideas ever really worked to any great extent.


#6

Hi jean-pierre,

                   I have examined an specimen of the 14 1/2 Greener Police Gun Mark I with a 2-piece bass case, a battery cup copper primer, a 6-point star crimp and E  GREENER  K  POLICE GUN headstamp. Sometimes this cartridge is also listes as just 14 Gauge.

                   I also have a standard 12 Gauge 2 1/2" headstamped with exactly the same headstamp as above. It's loaded with AAA shot.

#7

Have you a picture ?


#8

These are from an original Eley Proof Range sketch book that I have.

I also have these various labels for the Greener gun

Regards
TonyE


#9

I have four of the 14ga Greener shells in my collection (this amazes me as I don’t collect shot shells they just seem to breed in the dark and multiply when I’m not watching). All four are drawn brass and have the same headstamp: E GREENER K POLICE GUN not sure what type of primer but is roughly Large Rifle size

  1. New Primed Empty.
    Case mouth is 0.742

#10

Thanks to all for the info.
JP


#11

Would someone have the complete cartridge weight of that 14-gauge shell for the Greener Police Gun Mk I? Many thanks!

Cheers

HANS


#12

what is written on the first drawing by hand ?
thanks
jp


#13

despite the fact the first drawing has (I think) a number before the second one, it is not a 14 Greener
jp


#14

It is a regular 14 Gauge
the greener one is shorter
jp


#15

[quote=“HCV”]Would someone have the complete cartridge weight of that 14-gauge shell for the Greener Police Gun Mk I? Many thanks!

Cheers

HANS[/quote]

Hans, one that I have by Greener loaded with SG shot weighs 1046 grains. Hope this helps you. M. Rea


#16

Many thanks!

Cheers

HANS


#17

Hi J-P etc - attached ICI Kynoch drawing - note late date. Checking to see if I have any load details. JohnP-C


#18

Thank you John !
I send you the scans
JP


#19

Would someone know how the ammunition for the Greener was carried? What was the issue ammo pouch? How many shells did it take? Thanks!

Cheers

HANS