Greener Martini 12/14 Shotshell


#1

I picked a pair of these up at a local gunshow today. First I’ve seen of these. They are Greener Martini police shotgun shells, 12/14 gauge. Looks like the turned off the Greener headstamps and etched their own language. I’m thinking that the etchings are Egyptian??

The groove turned around the primer was to eliminate using regular shotshells in the guns. The action had pins that would keep enter these grooves. A regular shotshell without the groove would not let the action close.

Here’s a link to some info on them:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/greenerpolice.html


#2

search back, this cartridge has been covered in some detail. But you are right in your assumptions. a very interesting cartridge.


#3

I have a question about the groove in the base. I have read two different versions of why it is there, the website quoted here refers to “two lugs that protrude from the front face of the breech block. When a cartridge is loaded into the chamber, the lugs registered in the annular groove in the base of the case.” The other explanation I have read was that the firing pin was sort of a “trident” design and the outer two pins went in to the groove and the centre one could strike the primer. If there was no groove the centre one was not long enough to reach the primer. Which is correct or are both correct, different models of guns using different systems?


#4

I’ve read in one of the other threads about this shell that it sometimes held “cubicle” shot. Has anyone ever photographed any of this shot or the “pie-cut” slugs? I’d be interested in seeing what it looks like.


#5

The original Greener Design was a “trident” Firing Pin, to prevent the use of normal, civilian Shotshells…Another British Colonial Perfidiousness regarding “Gun Control” and the Natives.

If there were “fixed” lugs in place of the trident firing pin , then the effect would have been the same, preventing the closure of a Greener, but if one managed to “Jam” the block closed ( normal brass sleeved civilian paper cases are quite “soft” in the head)…then the gun could be fired, once at least…opening it may have been difficult…easier to file off the lugs, anyway ( but then a smart Native would have nipped the lateral points of a Trident FP as well!.)

Just one of the naive measures thought up by the British to control Guns in the hands of the natives… ( Like odd-sized and pitched screws in British guns…) -----ROTFALMAO!!! in spades. AS the North West Frontier shows, any British gun can be copied by the Natives…quite efficiently.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#6

Chances are if the natives steal the guns they steal the ammo with it. The trident pin idea was not quite so silly because if you file the pins off it lacks alignment and is likely to jam. It needs all three pins to locate it in the action

The better deterrent was that the 14 ga part of the chamber was too narrow to accept a standard 12ga cartridge.

However it was only a riot gun and of limited tactic use/ range anyway


#7

I don’t know if it contained cube shot or not but cube shot spreads much faster than round shot because the aerodynamics as it flies through the air is uneven and creates more sideways forces on the pellets. So it could be right.


#8

The .433/.43 Remington had cubic shot destined for the same over seas market, maybe a confusion? Vic


#9

I’ve read that the cubed shot was used for identification purposes. When a felon went to the doctor’s or hospital after being shot and escaping, the cubed shot would be a dead give away that they were shot by the police while committing a crime.


#10

I have never seen a Greener round loaded with cube shot as far as I recall, only the .433 Remington loads made by both Remington and Kynoch.

Here are the labels from some Greener packets by Kynoch.

Regards
TonyE