Greener police shotgun


#1

I have a 14 gauge brass shotshell ( new and unprimed ) that is headstamped " Greener police gun E K".It is long about 2.5 inches.I know that letters E and K indicates some greek use but i don’t know what gun chambered it and what kin of load was used.Can you help me?
Thank you

P.S. I am not writing about 12/14 martini police gun cartridge


#2

Sorry to ask but where is Loneriacco-Friul?


#3

Loneriacco is a small town in the Udine province about 140 Km from Venice,in the north of Italy.Friuli is the name of the region that contains the provinces of Udine ,Trieste and Pordenone.For more informations you can search “Friuli Venezia Giulia” with Google.In “Friulano”,the dialect that we speak Friuli translates in “Friul”


#4

Have you ever heard something about S. Daniele Ham? It is a friulan product such as wines like Cabernet


#5

Hi Pivi !
Have you heard of Leon Beaux, Fiocchi, Martignoni, Doot Jaccobucci, BPD, SMI catalogues in your country ?
Or of Italian people collecting shotshells ?
I asked on the Italian website and nobody seems even not to collect shotshells even not be aware of the existence of such catalogues !
JP


#6

Hello !
Your shell is for the 14 Gauge Greener MKI Police Martini Henri shotgun.
The length of the shell is 63.5 mm.

PS : Due to the fact you are Italian I don’t understand why you don’t use International units.

  • Even if you are on an US forum, they will understand (the official US sytem has been metric since the fisrt day of their independance!)
  • But , MORE IMPORTANT, is the fact if you use British units (despite the fact they are metric also in Engand now) you can make a lot of mistakes because you don’t know ALL THE TRICKS !

For example :
Except in a FEW OCCASIONS occasions (like for the Greener 14 gauge) , a 2 1/2 shell IN ENGLAND is not a 2 1/2 (63.5 mm) shell, but a 2 9/16 (65 mm) shell ! !!

(The Americans are more serious people even when they use inches: a 2 1/2 shell is a true 2 1/2 (63.5 mm) shell and a 2 9/16 a true 2 9/16 (65 mm) shell)

When you know that in England you have 63.5 and 65 mm length shells BOTH BEING DESCRIBED IN CATALOGUES UNDER THE SAME DESIGNATION 2 1/2, you can imagine the problem to sort them out !
(and it is stupid because on their own British manufacturers drawings they are written in mm , even in 1920 !!!)

JP


#7

Hi Jean Pierre,
Yes I know some people tha collect shotshells ( I collect them too ).If you want I can send you by e mail some people addresses.A friend of mine,who is a big shotshell collector would be happy to correspond with you.He lives in Piemonte ( near France border) and he often goes to french gun/ammunition shows too.He collect old italian ammo catalogues too


#8

Hello,
I usually use international units,but I wrote “2.5 Inches” because I believed you use inch units instead of metric units.I will use metric units.


#9

[quote=“Pivi”]Hello,
I usually use international units,but I wrote “2.5 Inches” because I believed you use inch units instead of metric units.I will use metric units.[/quote]

Hi Pivi !
it is a good idea I think.
You looks to have a a lot of ctges not very common in your collection and furthermore old ones.
Where did you find them ? In Italy ?
Just tell me what you are collecting exactly. I have a lot of duplicates to trade or sell because I collect only shotshells now.
I am always interested in old shotshells.
you can find my email on my website.
thank you
JP


#10

[quote=“Pivi”]Hi Jean Pierre,
Yes I know some people tha collect shotshells ( I collect them too ).If you want I can send you by e mail some people addresses.A friend of mine,who is a big shotshell collector would be happy to correspond with you.He lives in Piemonte ( near France border) and he often goes to french gun/ammunition shows too.He collect old italian ammo catalogues too[/quote]
Hello Pivi!

You collect shotshells ??!!! Good news.
Yes I am interested by the address of the shotshells collector in Italy.
I know one in Firenze and another one close to the French boarder;
perhaps we are talking of the same (Testa ??).
Are you coming to France sometimes ? I am living not very far from the Italian border.
JP


#11

[quote=“Pivi”]I have a 14 gauge brass shotshell ( new and unprimed ) that is headstamped " Greener police gun E K".It is long about 2.5 inches.I know that letters E and K indicates some greek use but i don’t know what gun chambered it and what kin of load was used.Can you help me?
Thank you

P.S. I am not writing about 12/14 martini police gun cartridge[/quote]

Thought the EK in the hs was Eley Kynoch.


#12

Jean Pierre,
I sent you an e mail with my friend’s address.He lives near the french border but you have to correspond with him by mail or telephone because he hasn’t got a PC ( he speaks ,reads and writes in french too).I am going to visit my uncle who lives near the french border ( Val Pellice ) next summer

P.S. two hours ago I called my friend.He would be happy to correspond with you and he told me that he has some “double” catalogues at home

Pivi


#13

[quote=“Pivi”]Jean Pierre,
I sent you an e mail with my friend’s address.He lives near the french border but you have to correspond with him by mail or telephone because he hasn’t got a PC ( he speaks ,reads and writes in french too).I am going to visit my uncle who lives near the french border ( Val Pellice ) next summer

P.S. two hours ago I called my friend.He would be happy to correspond with you and he told me that he has some “double” catalogues at home

Pivi[/quote]
Hi Pivi !
I know I called him. The shame is he has no computer.
I will writte to him.
Where is Val Pellice ?
Thanks
JP


#14

Hi Jean Pierre,
Val Pellice is near Pinerolo, about 60 Km from Torino.It is near Sestriere.My aunt is actually French and is the major of a town in Val Pellice called Torre Pellice


#15

orange,
Thank you for your answer.I was going back to the “Greek Powder & cartridge Co.” headstamps that is very similar ; E. - greek letter - K…In my headstamps guide book letters E and K are indicated as the last ones of the greek alphabet.However Eley Kynoch is a possibility
Pivi


#16

[quote=“jean-pierre”]Hello !
Your shell is for the 14 Gauge Greener MKI Police Martini Henri shotgun.
The length of the shell is 63.5 mm.

PS : Due to the fact you are Italian I don’t understand why you don’t use International units.

  • Even if you are on an US forum, they will understand (the official US sytem has been metric since the fisrt day of their independance!)
  • But , MORE IMPORTANT, is the fact if you use British units (despite the fact they are metric also in Engand now) you can make a lot of mistakes because you don’t know ALL THE TRICKS !

For example :
Except in a FEW OCCASIONS occasions (like for the Greener 14 gauge) , a 2 1/2 shell IN ENGLAND is not a 2 1/2 (63.5 mm) shell, but a 2 9/16 (65 mm) shell ! !!

(The Americans are more serious people even when they use inches: a 2 1/2 shell is a true 2 1/2 (63.5 mm) shell and a 2 9/16 a true 2 9/16 (65 mm) shell)

When you know that in England you have 63.5 and 65 mm length shells BOTH BEING DESCRIBED IN CATALOGUES UNDER THE SAME DESIGNATION 2 1/2, you can imagine the problem to sort them out !
(and it is stupid because on their own British manufacturers drawings they are written in mm , even in 1920 !!!)

JP[/quote]

Jean-Pierre,

One further complication is that UK cartridges are designated by the chamber length they are intended to fit. So, a loaded roll turnover cartridge can be longer than a star crimped one.

gravelbelly


#17

Jean-Pierre,

One further complication is that UK cartridges are designated by the chamber length they are intended to fit. So, a loaded roll turnover cartridge can be longer than a star crimped one.

gravelbelly[/quote]
Hi Gravelbelly,
this is normal.
a shotshell length is always given for the NPE, meaning the adequate chamber length.
like that there is no problem depending of the crimping.
Hopefully you follow this rule !!!
JP


#18

It is my understanding and in my collection 3 different Greener police gun rounds. The first type being a straight 14 gauge, next a 12/14 with a flat base, and last the 12/14 with groove. Each advancement was to prevent insurgents from using captured guns or so the story goes as I remember it told.


#19

Caro Pivi,
The “E K” on the headstamp of the Greener Police cartridge is Eley-Kynock.

The various “calibres” for the Greener Gun, (a modified Martini Action)
used several brass cases, of which the recessed head 12/14 gauge Bottleneck case is the last in the series, and probably the most common.
The recess in the base was for the two side pins connected to the body of the firing pin, so as to prevent the use of Civilian 12 gauge cases in a Greener Gun (Colonial Gun Control).

The other two , less common shell variants were a 12 gauge case firing in a 14 gauge barrel ( tight choke, one would say); and the Bottlenecked 12/14 gauge case, which reduced the pressures somewhat; this latter case did not have the head recess.

The “Production” version of the gun actually had a "13 Gauge " Barrel ( Barrel is marked “13”); this is equivalent to a “Full Choke” setting on a normal shotgun.

E se Chiel le 'd urigine piemunteisa, cuma mai viv ent el Friuli? Magari se l’e mes friulan, se capis?

Salut, e cerea,ne.( Prov. 'd Cuni)

Doc AV
AV Ballistics
Brisbane, Australia


#20

Mi capisci se parlo italiano?
Non capisco bene il piemontese.Comunque il mio amico