Guns & Ammo Magazine and Mondragon 5.2mm catridge


#1

In 1968 or 69 my father bought me a couple of Guns & Ammo magazines and an Air Rifle. In the G&A magazine there was an article on the 5.2mm Mondragon Ammunition. The Mondragon round captivated me and I always wanted one. And now I have one I’d like the magazine.

Does anyone have an index for G&A Magazines or know which issue it’s in as I’d like to try and get a copy.


#2

Since the G&A website does not have an archive option (frustrating), you have to resort to finding the magazines aftermarket and hope that in the descriptive listing that somebody has used the word “Mondragon” in describing the articles that the magazine has. I would go to Ebay and type: Guns Ammo 1968, or Guns Ammo 1969 and look at each magazine shown to see if there is an index of articles for the magazines shown. Just doing a search for “Mondragon” may or may not work since some sellers use html to show the descriptions inside the listing and the Ebay search feature may not find the word “mondragon”. Maybe seeing one of the magazine covers will jog your memory?

There is also this reference from that time period for the Mondragon cartridge you mention:

TANNER, H. - [Ammo] - Mondragon, Mexico’s Ordnance and Ballistics Genius. Guns of the World. 286-95. 1972.


#3

[quote=“DKConfiguration”]Since the G&A website does not have an archive option SNIP Ebay search feature may not find the word “mondragon”. Maybe seeing one of the magazine covers will jog your memory?

There is also this reference from that time period for the Mondragon cartridge you mention:

TANNER, H. - [Ammo] - Mondragon, Mexico’s Ordnance and Ballistics Genius. Guns of the World. 286-95. 1972.[/quote]

Thanks.


#4

Can’t help with the Guns and Ammo article, BUT if you want to know what it looks like inside:






#5

Simon - I have a good photocopy of the article on the Mondragon from “Guns and Ammo.” It is “Mondragon - The Browning of Mexico!” by Calvin Darst and appeared in the May 1967 Issue of “Guns & Ammo,” on pages 34-35, 76-77.

While I cannot supply the magazine (I don’t keep them - I tear out what I want for my files, or used to. I am currently about 200 magazines behind, and have no room for the info. In fact, I have cancelled all my magazine subscriptions except for three), I could provide you with a decent scan, I think. If you want that, send me an email.
Don’t “PM” me, use the email key. I have no clue as to how to add a scan to a PM message reply.


#6

I don’t know much about small arms ammunition, but this round is amazing looking. That separate chamber for the projectile is a design I have not seen. Such a large case with a small projectile. What shot this bullet? Was it designed with a specific purpose? Just super cool, especially the sectioned example.

J


#7

How is the bullet secured to the disc beneath it? I’ve heard it said that these cannot be inerted by pulling the bullet but surely when it’s fired the bullet and disc have to come apart. Will an inertia puller separate the two?
I’m not sure why I’m asking this as I collect live ammo anyway but I find this cartridge fascinating!


#8

I’ve wondered what the purpose of the ring on case was for and now I know. It was an interesting idea.


#9

The problem with using an inertia bullet puller here is the fact the bullet has little mass, hence there isn’t much inertia to work with. You can hardly sling one of these pullers hard enough to budge a light bullet in any cartridge. Jack


#10

I have a very good stereo microscope and with it, it looks like the “disk” is press fit on to the base of the bullet.
On the forth picture what you see in the center is the base of the bullet and then its hard to make out because of the build up of crud, is a ring that tells me it was press fit in.
I wish I could make pictures through that microscope, sorry.


#11

You guys need to use the resources of the IAA Main page and take advantage of the wonderful work done by Paul Smith. Cartridge of the Month, July 2007.
cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmoindex.htm

Ray


#12

Armourer, I have a copy of “Guns of the World” with the Mondragon story. I don’t have a scanner, but could take and e-mail digital photos of each page to you if you wish. Should be readable, as I have done that several times. If so, PM me.


#13

Mondragon’s 5,2mm Cartridge is a "Piston "Design.

The Disc serves to support the Long Bullet in the short neck (prevent distortion when loading from the magazine) and also to act as a Pistopn (Like a Steam Locomotive Piston) to guide the Bullet into the rifling on firing…the Gas pressure exerts evenly on the Disc and the Bullet, pushing both together, until the disc reaches the shoulder, where it stops…the bullet by now is engaging in the rifling, and the pressure fully engages the base of the bullet, pushing it down the bore.

This allows for the Rapid-burning characteristics of early (1890s) Nitro Powders. ( Retarded & Progressive Powders only came out during WW I).

It also allows for proper stabilisation of a very long bullet, given its mass and small diameter.

Mondragon used the “Piston” system in several of his cartridges ( 5,2 and 6,5mm, and others) The 5,2 cartridsge was used in the M1893(?) Straight Pull/ Self-Firing magazine rifle ( three position selector, Safe, Single shot( single trigger pull) and "Self-firing " ( manual repetition…keeps trigger depressed, and Bolt locks and fires automatically. ( Like a “tricked up” Winchester LA).

Mexico bought a small quantity of the Mondragon rifles in the 1890s, and occasionally (Rarely) one will show up, usually “poquito descompuesto” ( as described in the 1967 G&A Article…one of the very earliest of my acquisitions of Gun Magazines…, I have it archived in my Library.). They were used to destruction during the Mexican Revolution, as long as ammo lasted. (Ammo Made by Polte, Rifles by SIG Neuhausen, Switzerland).

The ammo was loaded by taking the cylindrical case, fitting the Piston and Bullet over the Loaded (Primer and Powder) case, seating it at the cannelure, and then necking the shoulder and neck over the Bullet. As the Case diameter is quite large, and the bullet quite small, there would have been several sizing steps.

Truely a “small calibre Magnum” in any era.

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#14

Thanks all for the help and information. It is appreciated.