Has anyone seen Kynoch cartridges in clips?


#1

It would be of great interest to clip-collectors like myself if Forum readers could post details of any AUTHENTIC instances of clip or charger loaded Kynoch cartridges being found in original packets, together with the mark on the clip or charger concerned and any information on headstamps, dates, etc.

Although Kynoch produced vast quantities of “K”-marked .303 chargers (Mks II, III and early pattern Mk.IV) during WW1, it so far seems that they made none of the later-type Mk.IV/Mk.4 chargers used during WW2.

And of the 17-odd calibres of cartridges they advertised for commercial sale in chargers or clips, extremely few of these are known to have carried a Kynoch mark. In fact some Kynoch cartridges are known to have been sold in chargers with other makers’ marks, or were unmarked.

Any info would be gratefully received.


#2

John there were 6.5 Arisaka cartridges in clips which were made for Russia in WWI. The clips had the full “KYNOCH” on.


#3

Kynoch 7.63 Mauser ctgs were packed on clips stamped BP , British Pens.


#4

Here is a scan of a 6.5 Arisaka clip made by Kynoch. The cartridge it contained was headstamped K 17 II
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#5

John,

There were also 7,62x54R chargers made either by or for Kynoch with the makers name transcribed into Cyrillic. The only one I’ve seen was marked 1917.

Peter


#6

Thanks to EOD, LesB, Orange and Enfield for your responses.

I have also reliable reports of Kynoch 7.65x25 rounds loaded in unmarked 8-round C.96 chargers, and of a packet of 1937-dated Kynoch 7x57 rounds in M.93 chargers marked “W” (1937 is too late for Weiss of Budapest).

Then there is the question of the “KB”-marked Pieper-Mannlicher type chargers holding Kynoch 6.5x53 Mannlicher-Schoenauer cartridges. These are structurally identical to the DWM-made version (marked “DWuM”), but with a blackened external spring like Hirtenberger specimens. Was this made by Kynoch or for them?

Were there any clips with Kynoch cartridges at SLICS this year??!!!


#7

John - Any chargers by anyone made for the 7.63 x 25m/m (not “7.65” as you typed) should be for ten rounds, or very rarely six rounds, and not eight as you mentioned. I have never heard of a C.96 for eight shots, although there are very rare 6-shot versions. The norm is ten shots.

I mention this because you used the term “C.96 Chargers.”

The Mannlicher cartridge based on the Mauser case was named the 7.65 m/m Mannlicher and had the same case (25m/m in length) as the 7.63 Mauser round. It is possible that some Mannlichers are eight-shot pistols. They are very rare and even when collection auto pistols, I never had a Mannlicher in this particular caliber, and am too lazy to go research it in my Mannlicher books right now, or to see if Kynoch made this round. Maybe later if no one looks it up and posts it here.


#8

John


#9

I have unearthed reports of two other C.96 chargers holding Kynoch-made 7.63x25 Mauser rounds, both found in Westley Richards labelled boxes holding 20 rounds in two 10-round chargers. The chargers in one box were marked “DM” and held normal ball rounds, hstp “K * B *”, while those in the other box were marked “K” and held rounds loaded with the Westley Richards All Range bullet, hstp believed to be “K. B.”. The All Range bullet, with its dish-shaped nose, was introduced early in the 20th century.

WR’s use of “DM” marked chargers probably stems from the fact that they were the sole British agents for the Mauser 7.63 pistol in its early years, and between 1897 and 1905 they are reported to have imported 7,901 of them. To service this need they contracted first with Eley and later with Kynoch to produce the ammunition, and WR presumably obtained chargers from DWM to hold some of this until arrangements were made to manufacture them in England.

Kynoch used the headstamp “K” on cartridges made under contract for, and packed by, other suppliers, and also of course on its military ammunition. Commercial cartridges advertised in its own catalogue nearly always bore the “Kynoch” hstp.


#10

A long time ago, I bought a couple of sealed boxes of 1931 Kynoch .303 on strippers. The boxes had black printing on red labels. I burned up the ammunition, but kept the strippers. I’ll see if I can locate them.


#11

Berdan III


#12

JJE:

I found the strippers: they are all marked “IV K-B” and are Parkerized (or phosphated) and are in good condition except for a few that have some rust from contacting the waxed paper that separated the layers of cartridges.

This ammunition was a real bargain for me at the time: $7.50 for a box of 50 rounds with just the strippers going for 50 cents each elsewhere.


#13

Berdan III


#14

I have a Kynoch catalogue of military rifle and machine gun cartridges. It is not dated, but it is from the mid 1930s.

It lists all the common miltary pistol, rifle and machine gun cartridges of the period, right up to the 23mm Madsen, and virtually all the rifle cartridges are offered in clips and chargers. No pictures of the clips or chargers though!

Regards
TonyE


#15

Tony


#16

I think my military catalogue is 1937. Compared to your catalogue list this one omits the 6.5mm Swedish Mauser, but does have the following:

7.5mm Swiss (charger)
7.62mm Russian (charger)
.30 Springfield (charger)
8mm Lebel (clip)

It also lists the .303 Mark VII in chargers.

Of course it does not have the commercial rounds.

Regards
TonyE


#17

That’s at least 21 calibres said to be available in clips or chargers – where are they all now!!!