Hawaii considering ban on unserialized ammo


#1

Aloha! If passed, the Hawaii bill would ban possession or sale of any ammo not having their silly serial numbers.
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3413

The anti-gun crowd is really pushing bans on ammo in any scheme they can think of as a means of neutering gun ownership or use. They think anyone who likes “bullets” is a sociopathic idiot and danger to society, even if you don’t own a gun…

Friends- You better get involved in the political games in the coming months at the local, state and federal level! Otherwise, kiss cartridge collecting goodbye.

Okay, you don’t live in New Joisy or Hawaii, or Kalifornia? If passed in any of those states, this foolishness will be proposed in your state in the future.

We live in intersting times. Join the NRA at least!


#2

Hey John, I resemble that remark. :) :)

Don’t forget to add Tennesee to the list.

I’ve been an NRA member since before dirt was invented but I sent a check today. I’ll gladly give up one or two new cartridges in order to save my hobbies and my freedoms.

And don’t forget to VOTE!

Ray


#3

Sorry,but what’s the meaning of “serial numbers” for a cartridge?
Headstamps?

Pivi


#4

Good point Pivi, how would such a cartridge look like? Has anybody an image or so?


#5

I think that it would be like here in Italy:to buy any kind of ammunition you must have a gun licence,and then register your cartridges to the local police station.The seller must have a register where he writes the name of the buyer and the code of his licence.
However you can buy cases,primers,bullets or inert ammo without any licence and send or receive them by mail with no problems

Pivi


#6

Quick summary of what “ammo serialization” would require follows (note that it is somewhat different for each proposal). Ignore the fact that it is impractical, if not impossible, or at least ridiculous to try to do this. The anti-gun people are happy if it cannot be done.

a. EVERY cartridge case would have to have a number- (a unique number for each round, or) the same number used for all cartridges in a box bearing the same number, and that number not to be duplicated on any other boxes.

b. In some versions of the scheme they want every bullet to be numbered as well, matching the number of the cartridge case.

c. Every box of ammo will be tracked by number from the maker to the retailer and when sold, a record kept of who bought it.

d. Illegal to possess ammo that is not registered to you by serial number, or that does not have the required serial numbers. [Ending all cartridge collecting, reloading and wildcatting!]

e. Plenty of opportunities to add provisions for special licenses, permits, fees, taxes, storage requirements, etc for all sellers or buyers.

Overall it is a pretty clever (and wickedly evil) scheme to accomplish gun ban goals through back door restrictions on ammunition. If it is possible to make ammo that complies with these requirements, the cost of a box of .22 rinfires would probably be unaffordable, but they really don’t care about that.

Ignore that fact that none of this makes any sense, and would have zero impact on criminals or solving crimes. The idea must be STOPPED anywhere that it is proposed.


#7

Every case?I tought that some people lived only in Italy,with our no-sense laws.
However,there will be no problem with ammo or guns that come from black market,so I can’t understand how these laws could stop crimes.
You have to elect your president,maybe this is part of the standard ideas to gain popularity…in the USA such as in Italy!!!

Pivi


#8

Not to make light of such an inane proposition (thanks John for keeping us all abreast)…but I fly there tomorrow (Hawaii) and should I encounter any collectible ammo that needs to leave the island…I will assist !

(We staff the NFC side of the NFL Pro Bowl game Sunday 2/10)(dirty job, but someone has to do it !)

Seriously in 1983 I had found a


#9
  • QUESTIONS: —> 1) If such an idiot proposition becomes law, how is going to be enforced??? Will the police search everyone’s property with guns in hand and sniffing dogs??? —> 2) Will the same idiot law be applied to the ammo used by the police and other government agencies from that particular state??? —> 3) Today most of the states from USA don’t have enough money for education and schools, transport, healthcare, roads maintenance and other important programs. Who is going to pay for the serialized ammo and the huge bureaucracy which follows??? A law like this will be like the prohibition [1920-1933] which failed miserably. Liviu 02/02/08

#10

I agree Liviu, governments avoid anything that costs money, and just as people made their own alcohol during the prohibition, criminals will make their own reloaded ammo without microstamps. Also, if the microstamp was visible to the naked eye, how long would it take to remove with emery paper before using the gun in a crime? Seconds probably. I am still sure this, if implemented, would fail miserably. All the politicians who were involved with it would be playing the blame game on each other afterwards for it failing, and trying to avoid having to be responsible for the costs.


#11
  • @ Falcon: Just imagine going to the shooting range to have fun with a few buddies, each firing his own serialized ammo. If no revolver is used, you must stay in your knees like a dog and you must look for the spent shell cases which belong only to you. With serialized ammo you don’t want anyone else to get your fired cases which later may be planted as evidence to a crime scene. And after you get ALL the serialized spent cases which can be tracked to you, what should you do with them??? Melt them or bury them in a ceremonial manner in the corner of the backyard??? It wouldn’t be a bad idea to look for the fired bullets since all are serialized too. I don’t want to think what a hunter has to do … Liviu 02/02/08

#12

Liviu, I had not even thought of that, also, if a box of serialised ammo you bought is lost, misplaced or stolen, you could find yourself the prime suspect in a murder you know nothing about.


#13

While hunting, my husband and I try to pick up our shell casings, but even then, sometimes it’s impossible depending upon the grasses! And though our moose kept all 3 bullets inside, to do that with deer or other would be a long shot… guess we’d have to make our load with just enough force to kill but not go through the animal we are hunting… oh, but how would that work?? Reloading our own… to try to match the bullet serial # with the case serial #… especially when you re-load the same case several times???


#14

While hunting, my husband and I try to pick up our shell casings, but even then, sometimes it’s impossible depending upon the grasses! And though our moose kept all 3 bullets inside, to do that with deer or other would be a long shot… guess we’d have to make our load with just enough force to kill but not go through the animal we are hunting… oh, but how would that work?? Reloading our own… to try to match the bullet serial # with the case serial #… especially when you re-load the same case several times???[/quote]

I assume reloaders have to use special dies then which will bear the social insurance number of the reloading individual then and every cartridge running through a loading press will get marked automatically.
Since ancient days idiots are ruling our world and it is highly unlikely that anything will change.


#15

It seems some of you fail to understand the basic premise. Their goal is to eliminate private ownership of ammunition and guns.

They really don’t care about reloading, they will probably outlaw that “to make it easier to track criminals”. You won’t have any ammo for your gun? Great!

Older ammo? Well, use it up in a specified period and after that possession will be a crime- and they don’t care if it is .44 Henry, .56 Spencer, .70 Winchester, or that special box of .22 rimfires or .30-06 Pomeroys. Only criminals will have guns or ammo. (Or maybe a few people will be able to get legally purchased and registered serialized ammo…)

Rather than figuring out ways to comply with such foolishness, or measures to lessen the immediate impact, it is best to dig in and ensure that THEY SHALL NOT PASS! No compromise, none!

Get involved in the political process.
Vote.
You must be registered to vote, so do that now.
Write or call your elected officials (NRA-ILA will help tell you when that is needed).
Get involved with your local political party as a delegate or campaign worker to help get good people nominated at the earliest stages possible.
Get your family and friends involved.
Give money to good candidates directly (NOT via state or national parties, they just split it among all the candidates, including the anti-gun crowd!)
Get involved with your state/local gun rights activist group. A handful of people really can make a big difference!


#16
  • @ John S.: There is also another goal: to bankrupt and destroy the US ammo manufacturers. Liviu 02/04/08