The second is different where does this stamp come from never heard of it before or seen it
mentioned in any literature anybody out there advise.The second picture is for EOD he identified that Becker
round for me I put it on belatedly for him to see and everybody else that might be interested.
The first photo is of a 20 m/m Becker, and the maker of the case was Poetz and Sand, indicated (partially) by the “…& S” stamp at 12 o’clock. The mark at 6 o’clock should read (I believe) Sp over 64. Don’t know what the “Sp” indicates, but I’ve always imagined “Spandau” in these big caliber imperial German headstamps. Don’t know what the Spandau connection, if any, is; maybe one of the artillery folks will tell us. Jack
Jack, the “Sp” is the Spandau arsenal which did the acceptance on these cases.
The projectile is a TP.
EOD: Thanks much. The number then identifies a specific Spandau inspector or inspection team? Jack
Jack, that I can not say for sure!
The 450 by DCCo was for Sealing and is correct. The other was for either a gun shop or retailer and is uncommon.
Pete thanks for the info in particular that D.C.CO had no idea it was used for sealing.That other one is
something else I had hoped that some of the british collectors would come out of the woodwork
and have an answer?This one seems to be really rare as you know if it is not Kynoch,Eley or a few
well known other names the real trouble starts but Is that not the fun of collecting? thanks again
Scholefield Goodman & Sons, Birmingham was a retailer and exporter in business since (have two references one says 1790’s and the other says 1880’s). Cartridges were made for them by Kynoch. They are fairly rare for sure. I have only observed in.450 caliber thus far but others may possibly exist.
1790’s is correct this company supplied many rifles to the USA for the Civil war.
This Cartridge was also used for sealing…here is an article: on this cartridge on a British military forum.
The packet of Scholefield Goodman & Co. Sealing Rifle Cartridges, which you illustrate, are .450-3 1/4" Black Powder Express cartridges, which I believe was the most commonly used sealing cartridge by the crews of the Newfoundland sealing fleet.
Is your Martini chambered for this cartridge? (I note that the earliest Martini-Henry military trial rifles were chambered for an early version of this cartridge).
Falling block breechloading rifles using this cartridge, made by D. & J. Fraser, Alexander Henry, Scholefield & Co. on the Field’s Patent action, and after about 1895 rifles using “PD” action replicas of the earlier Gibbs-Farquharson action, supplied by several makers, became the most usual types now found in Newfoundland.
I mentioned and illustrated such a Scholefield / Field rifle in my book “The British Falling Block Breechloading Rifle from 1865”.
Subsequently I wrote an article: “Daniel Fraser of D. & J. Fraser of Edinburgh, Scotland” which was published in The Journal of the Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association (HBSA) in the UK, which specifically addresses a very early order, circa 1881, of probably 50 rifles by D. & J. Fraser which were sent out to Newfoundland probably by Scholefield, Goodman & Co. themselves, Mr. Scholefield having personally visited Newfoundland, and subsequently having much involvement with the Crown Colony, as it then was.
This article in The Journal, Vol. 3, No. 9, is still available from the HBSA as a back issue. A correcting addendum to that article followed in the subsequent issue, Vol. 3, No. 10.
I am currently working on a new book specifically about Daniel Fraser, which will considerably expand on the story of this early order of D. & J. Fraser rifles for Newfoundland.
Newfoundland Sealing Rifles
Apr 16 13 4:58 AM
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Further to my last one, I regret that I made an error in my above statement. It was not Mr. Scholefield, but his partner, John Dent Goodman, who was a relation of Mr. Scholefield’s wife, who went out to visit his prospective customers in Newfoundland.
Scholefield, Goodman & Sons had a long relationship with the seal hunting fleet actually based in Newfoundland, as I have shown in the above mentioned article, and traded directly with Newfoundland for many years.
While I am sure that there were plenty of Sniders and Martini-Henrys used by the military forces on Newfoundland, I have so far found no record of their use by native Newfoundlanders for seal hunting.
My Scholefield-Field rifle, marked to the Newfoundland sealer “Neptune”, and another identical example of which I know, both chambered for the .450-3 1/4" BPE, both carry high Field action serial numbers which dates them to probably after 1890, and both carried just the “Scholefield” name, not including Goodman.
Joel: Were your two Alexander Henry’s similarly marked (without the ‘Goodman’)? Do you by any chance still have a record of their Alexander Henry serial numbers? I would be very interested in knowing their approximate dates of delivery from Henry.
Thanks to the cartridge corner for the excellent write up I am very pleased to have found out what I have and yes
these 2 pieces had come from someone connected to Quebec where the sealing was not that far away. thanks again
Thank you for the info I like to express a personell note of thanks to you as I was at a real loss
with this one it was the first time I even heard the name mentioned and I collect for a long time
EOD: Thank you for your additional response to my interest in the Becker headstamp. It was appreciated. Jack