Help id cartridge


Thank you inadvance but I am trying to id a small brass case round large copper primer, semi round bullet 5.7mm dia. (.225"), case length is 18.9mm (.740"), neck dia. = 6mm (.235"), base dia. = 6.1mm (.238"), rim dia. = 7.04mm (.296"). It was purchased as a 230 long but I can find nothing on that round. It resembles a 22 Francotte aka 6mm Francotte, but am unable to find anything about that round. any information will be helpful. There are some wonderful sites out there if you goggle 6mm Francotte. Wish I spoke French.


From Brad Dixon: I hope this helps you distinguish which one you have:

Like the 6mm Andreux (FR20), this cartridge was originally thought to be the 5.75mm Velo-Dog Short. It has however been positively identified from the SFM factory drawing 10150 dated 1912 as being used in a .22 Francotte Carbine and SFM packet labels also confirm this fact (see images).

An RWS factory drawing dated 16.5.1921 (see images) shows this case type with an 18.5mm case and listed it as “Francotte 18,25x5,71” and production by RWS with brass cases is confirmed.

It is also very similar to the 220 English CF Long (aka the 230 British Carbine Long or 22-4-30 Eley Long) but can be distinguished as follows:

  • It has a significantly wider case diameter of 6.4mm rather than 6.15mm.
  • It has a significantly wider rim diameter of 7.7mm rather than 7.2mm.
  • It has a case length closer to 17.6mm rather than 18.85mm.

It is likely that the 230 Long would fit in carbines chambered for the 6mm Francotte but not the other way around. See images for a comparison of the 6mm Francotte, 230 Long and 230 Short.

There is a semi-rimmed version of this cartridge generally referrred to as the 5.75x 18R Unknown, shown on page 226 of the E&B.

The only reference I have been able to find for the 220/230 long is an Eley catalog, although it does not seem to be such a scarce cartridge.


Thank you Brad that clears up a lot. I didn’t know that the Francotte round even existed and that the 230 long wasn’t a handgun cartridge. Sorry it took so long to get back. This forum is great.