Help, ID needed


#1

OK, lost it on this one;
Can anybody tell me what it is and/or how it works?

Thanks,

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#2

This is a blank made by UTM (from the UK).
A special training round out of their wide range of traning ammunition.

Their site does not load right now so here a general overview:
https://www.google.de/search?q=UTM+ammunition&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_u827tIbcAhXKECwKHawKA4oQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=959


#3

Thank you once again.


#4

Hi Mike,

I can add that it is the first variant of the Silent Blank Round (SBR) that was identified with silver color (silver = “silent”). An identical looking cartridge with brass color (brass = “noisy”) was designated Battlefield Blank Round (BBR).

Regards,

Fee


#5

I think I asked this once before, but of what training use is a silent
blank? If they are truly silent, wouldn’t an empty chamber perform
the same function?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but after 55 years of fooling with ammunition,
I don’t quite understand the concept of a “silent blank.”

John Moss


#6

John, the big advantage of the “silent” blank over a dummy or an empty chamber is that it can cycle the rifle in semi and full auto (using a UTM conversion kit). Also, you don’t need to use a blank firing muzzle attachment.

Regards,

Fede


#7

John, I think we discussed this somewhen before but I am not sure if really and when where.

Silent blanks can be used in special close combat training where it is trained to disarm a person. There preferable before the suspect can fire a round. In such situs it is definately not advisable to use real blanks as all participants may be injured.
So when using silent blanks it can clearly be spotted if a person was able to fire a gun and if procedures were executed correctly.
A nother might be the use in classrooms to demonstrate the function of a weapon - again not advisable with real blanks.
These are just some possibilities and the full range of possible uses is only limited by a trainer’s mind.


#8

I guess my mind is limited. I see no advantage to a noiseless blank over an empty
but cocked weapon in any of the mentioned situations. In fact, the use of the full
auto feature of a 7.62 x 51 machine gun in an enclosed class room could be hazardous
to trainees seated during the demonstration as the fired cartridges are ejected from
the weapon. Were I giving such a class, the minimum requirement for all present would
be the wearing of safety glasses.

Sounds to me like the classic situation of a solution in search of a problem. Just my opinion,
but based on not only civilian experience, but also on field and classroom training situations
with rifle, pistol, carbine, Light Machine gun and SMG. On training field, getting soldier use to
the “din of battle,” the LMGs were used with a blank-fire attachment, which as I recall was a simple
muzzle attachment that didn’t require a special gun or special barrel, with the rifle being used
with blanks (Garand M1) simply cycled by hand. Blank attachments for the rifle were considered
unnecessary except for theatrical productions.

Probably enough on this. I accept that there are other opinions, of course. This is just my own
opinion. The whole subject is purely subjective.

John M.


#9

I seem to remember years ago in UTMs ‘blurb’ the main reason for use quoted by UTM was for use on restricted training areas which were close to populated areas…so not to upset the natives with noise so to speak.
There was also a ‘man marker’ version.
Photo is of a sectioned 5.56mm ‘silent blank’

Tony


#10

Once again, can’t understand the reasoning! The main purpose of a blank
is to provide a realistic “atmosphere” in training for battle. Why train with any
ersatz “ammunition” if the physical location or the facilities won’t support the
main reason for using blanks?

Once again, just my own opinion.

JLM


#11

Once again, thank you all for the help, much apricated.

I cannot get over how many thousands or rather millions of these I have been involved with one way or another and never really paid any attention to them (I mean that globally not this specific item). It was just the job at the time…

Regards,
Mike.


#12

Me neither John and from my own observations on the UKs largest training area it would seem the military didn’t either,it would seem they tried them very briefly(silent blanks and man markers) but very soon changed over to the Canadian system (man marker only in both 5.56mm and 9mm)

Tony


#13

Tony, you have a later variant of the Battlefield Blank Round (BBR). The SBR equivalent does not have a firing pin ball, forward primer and vent hole (front section is solid).

Regards,

Fede


#14

OK, Sorry but got to ask this…

These are made for use in CF weapons, so how is it using a RF case?
Is it with an adaptor or change of bolt? (A lot of work in an auto or semi!)
You can see that the blank has been struck well off centre, much to far for a CF pin.

I am sure I am just missing the obvious here!

Mike.


#15

Mike, to what I know for riflwes you need a special conversion breech and for Pistols (center fire) you need a special barrel.

Here the rifle kit:


#16

The UTM site is still not accessible for me. Here some more images on all conversion kits:
https://www.google.de/search?q=utm+gun+conversion&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig8cfCjojcAhWiiqYKHSwZD08Q_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=959#imgrc=_&spf=1530799086228


#17

I have found this quite amazing, from all the work and costs involved, it must surely be just as easy if not easier to buy the damn thing to begin with rather than all the balling about to convert one!! Obviously very lucrative to the vendor…

You can certainly see the use for a .22 centre fire blank rather than using a rim fire… Surely somebody has been down that rout “and” no I am not going back to work to find out if they have.


#18

Here safety is the factor. It has to be assured that no life ammo can be fired and almost nothing works better than a priming system which is off line and requires a special breech (also lighter I assume and most likely it will not digest life ammo well if at all).


#19

The UTM webpage works again!

Here their short video introducinig the SBR (silent blank round). This may help to understand the concept.

And here you have lots of their intro videos on all kits etc:
https://utmworldwide.com/videos-media/


#20

Here the current UTM catalog. I noticed some new rounds in there like the 5.56x45 “RVR” reduced velocity round and also new 9x19 variants.