Help id this cartridge


#1

This cartridge have a headstamp who say 8mm but it is loaded whit a 5.6 mm harden steel ball,
what is the purpose whit the cartridges.


#2

I’ve not seen one like this particular round but hard steel ball bearings are often used in ballistic armour trials for body armour etc I’ve certainly used 6mm for this
I’m sure someone willl identify this particular loading

Nematoad


#3

The case form and headstamp is the same as for the various 8mm Knall gas and blank guns, but these normally have a blocked barrel specifically so you CAN’T use a solid projectile in them. In short, damned if I know?


#4

Perhaps something home made? There have been a few people in the UK shot with modified blank guns. This may not have enough velocity to kill, but I’m sure it would hurt!


#5

The way the ‘bullet’ is crimped in sure looks factory made to me.


#6

The normal blank loads in this calibre also usually have a “roll-style” crimp on the case-mouth; maybe someone just found something that fits?


#7

It appears from the picture that the ball is much larger than the opening in the case mouth, so it had to be crimped after the ball was put in.


#8

It is not home made because I saw more than 100 of that type cartridges.


#9

It is a so called 8 mm Grenaille.It is the ball version of the 8 mm Blank for KNALL guns.Your sample was made by fiocchi.Some say that exist tear gas and shot variations of this cartridge.However your load is original,not handmade.There is also a 35 granaille ( 9 mm).

Hi,Pivi


#10

[quote=“Pivi”]It is a so called 8 mm Grenaille.It is the ball version of the 8 mm Blank for KNALL guns.Your sample was made by fiocchi.Some say that exist tear gas and shot variations of this cartridge.However your load is original,not handmade.There is also a 35 granaille ( 9 mm).

Hi,Pivi[/quote]
I think this ctge is homemade.
A lot of people in france used to convert “grenaille” to illegal guns.
I saw a lot of them and I knew people making them
JP


#11

[quote=“jean-pierre”]
A lot of people in france used to convert “grenaille” to illegal guns.
JP[/quote]
The streets of the UK are currently flooded with illegally converted blank firing guns in the hands of criminals. In fact 80% of guns used in shootings here are bored-through blank firing weapons. They are potentially as dangerous to the firer as they intended target, as they can (and have when used by criminals) explode when fired with live ball ammunition. They are also obviously extremely inaccurate due to lack of rifling.


#12

None of my Fiocchi catalogs show any kind of loading with the 8mm Knall cartridge with a projectile. In fact, only blanks are shown. I suspect they have also made tear gas rounds, but don’t know that. My answer cannot be definitive, because I have no really current Fiocchi catalogs for the Italian domestic market. All of mine are since before the turn of this century and are from Fiocchi U.S.A. aimed at the American and International market.

Is there, by the way, such a cartridge as the “8mm Grenaille?” The only cartridge I know of with that name is the “.35 Grenaille.” I am not disputing that an 8mm of that designation exists - I simply have not heard of it before and would like confirmation, preferably from a factory printed source (quoted here but referenced). If it exists, is it simply the same case type as 8mm Knallpatrone, but loaded with shot?


#13

JP and John
In Italy this 8 mm shot is illegal,my informations come from a web site that shows this cartridge in both blank and shot versions.And also The brandt’s book
have pictures of this version of this cartridge.It is strange because the same book reports that these cartridges are avaiable on the french market

Pivi


#14

HI
35 grenaille is different John
2 kinds exist : rimmed and rimless
8 mm grenaille which is a different caliber is the one shown and the name is correct.
It vthink it is what you call Knallpatrone
Many loadings exist . Gas, shot, blank
either the cap is in plastic either in paper. different colors for different loadings
no trace of this loading in my fiocchi catalogues and i am sure it is handmade!
jp


#15

Here it is…

If you can see what is written above fiocchi made this round too


#16

Hi Pivi !
they are many errors in Ermeir Brandt , do you know that ?
JP


#17

Yes I do.But more informations can prove or not my posts.I support John Moss to ask some factory drawn or catalogue that would show this 8 mm ball version


#18

Hi Pivi !

  1. Fiocchi has made 8 mm Grenaille (as shown in EB book, meaning with shot , gas or blank loadings). I (and the other people also) never told you the opposite.
    I had very often seen Fiocchi ctges and boxes .

  2. We just said the ball loadings are not factory made.
    I checked in EB book and it never talks of a ball loading (which was your initial topic subject)

JP