Help please on this Patent Ignition-.58 Schubarth


#1

I was asked to identify this patent ignition round, and although I recognise it I cannot remember exactly what it is.

Sorry about the poor quality picture, but that was what I was given!

All help appreciated,
Thanks
TonyE


#2

Tony–That is a .58 Gallager & Gladding Capsule Inside Primed Pin Fire. It was patented 12 July, 1859 (No. 24,730)


#3

Tony–I might add that whoever owns the cartridge is one lucky collector. This is one of Holy Grails of cartridge collecting. It is amongst the rarest of all cartridges and the dream of most collectors. However, as with anything valuable, they have been faked, so be careful.


#4

Much appreciated Ron and thanks. I will try to find out a bit more about it. The enquiry came via the forensic channel.

Regards
TonyE


#5

Tony–The cartridge was used in the Schubarth Breech-Loading Rifle, Patented 23 July, 1861.There are only a very few of the rifles known, one of which is in the Smithsonian Museum in Washington, D.C.


#6

This is not a .58 Gallager & Gladding (1859) but a .58 Schubarth (1861). These differ in construction and were made for different guns. The only known specimen of the .58 G&G is the patent model without bullet in the Smithsonian collection.

.58 Gallager & Gladding:


#7

Fede–Thanks for the correction. I was quoting from Logan’s book “Cartridges”, Pg. 56.


#8

Fede–I should have done more through research before I posted that first answer. Hoyem, Vol. 1, Pages 120-123 clearly shows both cartridges and the associated guns. In my defense (no excuse) is the fact that the first place I ever saw a drawing of this cartridge back in 1958 when I first started collecting cartridges was in Logan. So, that was the source I thought of earlier. In Logan’s defense, I don’t think anybody knew the difference back then. I, and many other collectors, always referred to it as a .58 G&G , most likely based on Logan’s miss-identification, until Hoyem published his book in 1981.


#9

IAA Home Page - Glossary - Inside Pinfire


#10

If I remember correctly, Armin Bickel had one for sale in one of his previous auctions.
Maybe one of the readers has a catalog and can scan the cartridge.

René


#11

Here it is:


#12

Many thanks gentlemen for the info. I have passed it on to the original enquirer. If it turns out they have found one I will let you know!

Regards
TonyE


#13

Here are a couple


#14

Thanks again

Regards
TonyE