Help required with (inert) 8x57R JRS


#1

Would appreciate any additional background information on this inert 8x57R JRS.

The headstamp includes the letters HP that ‘should’ be: Hirtenberger Patronen-, Zündhütchen-und Metallwarenfabrik A.-G., Hirtenberg, Niederdonau, Austria.

My questions are:
(i) Was this manufactured at Hirtenberger in Austria? I seem to recall reading, somewhere, that Hitrenberger had a subsidiary at Dordrecht, Netherlands. Unfortunately; I can’t now find that reference. Could this have been manufactured at Dordrecht, Netherlands?

(ii) Neither the Cartridge Collector, or Municion (8x57R JRS), make any reference, in their background material, to Hirtenberger as a manufacturer. Could anyone provide additional background material regarding manufacture (date?) at Hirtenberger?

http://www.cartridgecollector.net/8-x-57-jrs-mauser

Sam3


Magyar Löszermüvek History and P (Hirtenberger) Headstamp Questions
#2

Some Dordrecht information here: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18694

Headstamp information:



Brian


#3

The caliber designation “8 x 57 JRS” was officially introduced with the German Proof Law of 1939.
Because Austria was occupied by the Germans already in 1938, Hirtenberger had been dispossessed and made part of the German Gustloff conglomerate (Headstamp G). So production immediately after the German proof law came into effect seems very unlikely.
Therefore the cartridge in my opinion is post-WW2.


#4

There are some time periods not correct concerning 7,9 Mauser rounds.
The code “Pi” was used between Mai 1924 and July 1925.

The company Sellier and Bellot in Schönebeck was sold from Steyr in Vienna to Hirtenberg in 1930. Before this date the Mandl group was also owner from a company Soloturn in Switzerland.

In 1926 developments were made on 7,9 cartridges outside Germany with the head stamp “P69”. SmK, SmK Lsp, B- Patronen and Spr are known with this “P69” head stamp.
They had red, yellow, purple, green and black tips. Mostly colours the Germans did not use.
A couple of years ago several of these cartridges were found by Soloturn in Switzerland.

Keep this in mind because the first head stamp after these three 1926 lots from P69 were made in 1934.

It could be the Mandl concern made cases with a “P67” head stamp but they were loaded in Schönebeck. At the end of 1930 the code must be changed from P67 to P69 who was already given to Mandl.

The top box label, cartridges made by “P67” with cases from “P67”.
The middle box cartridges made by “P67” cases from Polte.
The bottom box cartridges made by “P69” cases from Polte.

Now the interesting part is, all tree boxed used the same lot number powder.

Hirtenberg

I don’t think it is correct to write P67 and P69 are German export orders…

Rgds


#5

Dutch - If the cases were indeed made by Hirtenberg (am not confirming
they were, although I think in that particular company history it is a good
bet that type of information is correct), then from an Austrian standpoint,
since they were made before Austria became part of “Gross Deutschland,”
would not manufacture for Germany be an export in their eyes?

Am not making a correction here. I am asking a question for my own
information.

Hope all is well, dear friend.

John M.


#6

The cartridge pictured above has the relief cut just in front of the rim that is characteristic of many U.S. made rimmed center fire cartridges produced from about 1905 on but is rarely seen in European cartridges, as far as I can tell, until after WW.2. This seems to underscore JPeelen’s point. Jack


#7

I am happy to accept that this was manufactured after WW2.

My searching the Web for this particular headstamp, has produced little information.

I presume that this was a popular European hunting round, therefore; if anyone could provide details of a box for this cartridge, it would be much appreciated?


#8

Is it possible that this 8x57 JRS was made by another manufacturer, as commented by ‘morten,’ for the examples appended below?

morten
image

“Here are two HP headstamps which I believe were made by RUAG.”


#9

Getting back to the original question; This style of Hirtenberger headstamp on sporting cartridges is definitely post WW2. The ones without the “5 & 6” point stars seem to be later, generally from c1989 onwards. It is possible that these were produced by other companies for HP.

The only references to the 8x57JRS in HP catalogs that I have are in the 1999, 2001 and 2002 catalogs - it wasn’t listed in the last HP catalog of sporting ammunition in 2004.

HP post WW2 Sporting ammunition catalogs from 1958 (the first post WW2) to 1999 appear very hard to get - has anyone seen any ?


#10

Just as a follow-on:
At a recent Militaria Show the following (inert) HP examples were on display.
The centre example appears to have had a slight bunter failure.

Sam3