Help with 9x19 cartridge I.D. please


#1

please help with I.D. of this 9x19 cartridge



#2

These cartridges were made in Czechoslovakia by Zbrojovka Brno in 1946, for the “Nederlandsche Politie” and boxed 25 rounds to a box. The box labels are all in Dutch, and the only indication I can read of the true nationality of manufacture on the box is the Brno trademark, a “Z” inside a gun barrel (rifling).

This round is found with both GMCS and CNCS bullets. The box labels are identical for both, but I don’t think they were ever mixed in the boxes. The ones with CNCS bullets have a red seal. The ones with GMCS a black seal, although I have seen a couple of these where it looks almost like the black is put over the red - that is, they have a sliight red tinge to the primer-seal color.

The identical headstamp appears on 9 mm Browning Short (.380 Auto), except there is a “K” for “Kurz” behind the “9 mm” marking, instead of a “P.” Because of the unique headstamp, the 9 mm Short is certainly for the Dutch Police also, although I do not have a box label for it in my own collection.

Since all three variants mentioned above have the number 14 on the headstamp, along with the dateof 46, I cannot imagine it is a lot number, since no other number is known on this headstamp, and it certainly is not the month. I do not what what the “14” represents.Perhaps Lew Curtis can help us with that.


#3

John’s right again, as usual. I have only seen this load with the “14” which is strange since other ammunition by this manufacturer in the immediate post WWII years seems to have the month and date. I have no useful thoughts on why this headstamp has a “14”. The highest number I have documented on other headstamps is “11”

I also have this headstamp on a nickel plated dummy.

Cheers,

Lew


#4

Since the “14” appears on both the Parabellum and Kurz rounds, perhaps it is a contract designator?


#5

Some photos from a box in my collection. It seems that Gyro has my missing round :)


#6

Vlim - Just for the record, that is the same box I have. Both loads, the CNCS bullet and GMCS bullet types came in identical boxes. If my boxes were full, I would be happy to take one out to fill your box, since I don’t care for any more than one round in the box. Unfortunately, I have had my boxes so long that I don’t have any of the others still in my dupes.


#7

That box label seems to have a note “voor stenguns” (for Sten Guns?). Am I reading that correctly?

Were the Dutch Police using Sten Guns at that time?

gravelbelly


#8

Hi, yes, it specifically mentions that the cartridges are intended for the sten gun. The Dutch were equipped with surplus US and British material after WW2, this included sten guns as well.

John: Thanks for the gesture. The box is actually missing 2 rounds and I’m sure I will be able to live with that, for now :)


#9

I have a box but it was empty,now I have one cartridge for that Thanks to all…

John I have a simular box but for 6,35…




And my empty box …now have one round in it…


#10

Harrie,

What is the headstamp on the 6.35 cartridges? I have never seen the box in this caliber before.
Some of the rounds in your picture appear to have a two part headstamp (12 and 6 o’clock) while others seem to have more entries. Hard to tell. I have several slight variations of “Z 6.35” with a red primer seal.

With all the 7.65 mm Browning Pistols kicking around Europe right after WWII, I’d bet that there p[robably was a 7.65 mm version of this box too.


#11

John headstamp is Z 6,35

regards
Harrie