Help with Danish crate ID

Photo of one end the other has the same labeling.
It’s about 14" long, 9.5" wide and 7.5" high.
It has the leather handled lid / top. The box seem to have had inner rectangular posts to hold the top up but there are holes in the box bottom to allow the posts to move, although there is a groove in the bottom for a band? or bar? to provide a bottom for the posts.

Who made it? what did it contain? how old is it? and what was the purpose of the sliding / adjustable posts?

Photo of the inside also showing two slots for the posts. (which are missing).

Thanks


The wording is Danish (to me) and says “Machine Gun Ammunition” (in fact and directly translated it says “recoil-rifle cartridges”). Also the box design is Danish.
My guess is on 8x58R Danish Krag.
Must be before 1940.
Maybe our experts can tell more.

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Thanks Alex

As Alex said, it is a crate to Danish machin gun (Madsen) 8x58RD ammunition, and the brown stripe tell us, that the cartridges is ball (FMJ). There would be 720 cartridges (24 boxes of 30pcs.) most likely. Tracers have a white stripe and AP have a black stripe.

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m89
Thank you very much, your photo explains everything regarding the construction.
If you please, one last question, how hard are they to find at home?
A very interesting design.

Hi Pete,
They are not common anymore, but it is posible to find. They are the “old” design, the new design were more traditionel with 1000 cartridges.
Lars

Some years back i robbed a pyramid and helped a mate open a case of tracers made during the occupation.
Is was also a light blue woodencase with a sealed zink liner that we ripped open. No leather straps of any kind! It was clearly marked for aircraft use only (why I have no idea because there were/is no difference in their loading.
Inside was all tracers as you can see.

Bottom lines:
Projektilets Pressedato = Date of projectile manufacture
Patroneringsdato = Date of manufacture/assembly of the final cartridge

Danish has strong influesce from German so we make long words by omitting spaces but that also makes it very exact in describing the meaning.

Projektilets Pressedato litteraly means the day the projectile was pressed/formed
Patroneringsdato litteraly means the day the cartridge was manufactured.

I got 5 boxes for a song and a dance (no more than $15/box)
I ran so fast that mud from my shoes hit me in the back of my head!!!

Dates enhanced:

Most boxes was unstamped for some reason.

Why on earth they made 8x58R for aircraft use during the war is beyond me as i recall mostly (way outdated) biplanes in Danish use and old outdated monoplanes. None of which the Gerries could have any use of. Danmarks Flymuseum - Fly 1911 - 1940

Thank you all.

Arma Danis has changed their site so linking is made impossible.

https://www.arma-dania.dk/public/timeline/_ad_patroner_list.php?pagesize=-1

Heres the content.


Aar 1940
Modelbetegnelse M1908/40
Hovedtype Geværpatron
Type Lyssporpatron
Vapentype Rekylgevær system Madsen
Kaliber 8 x 58 RD
Patronvaegt 29,44g.
Projektilvaegt 12,3g.
Krudt 3,14g, Røgsvag
Beskrivelse Patronen er beregnet til rekylgevær system Madsen og erstatter Lyssporpatronerne M 1908/33 og 1908/34. Patronen er mærket med rød spids og hvid hylsterbund.
Da projektilet er tungere end M 1908/33 er lyssatsen samtidig gjort mindre.

Tracer cartridge for machineguns on the Madsen system. Replaces M1908/33 and 1908/34 types. Red bullet tip and white painted casehead. Slightly heavier projectile than the M1908/33 means the tracer cup is made a bit smaller.




HA = Hærens Ammunitionsarsenal, København.

Torben Ohms Datablad 1 14_3.pdf
Bent Bangs Datablad Lysspor M1908-40-20080327-151034.jpg

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I am going out on a limb with this question, but…

As I remember, the Russians were using Biplanes flown by women against German troops during this timeframe, so is there not a chance someone else was doing the same, or, since Russian ammo might have been in short supply, what is the chance they were using aircraft MGs with this ammo?

After the war, HA also used these boxes to pack 6.5 mm m. 1946-ru. cartridges.

Thanks Fede
After the mention of the 8mm I took a closer look at the crate & it has a very, very faint “8mm Danish” hand written on one side on the brown band. So perhaps this one was not packaged with the 6.5, but who knows.

Sorry, no strange tracer production and no fancy female air squadron in here.

The tracer round M.1908/40 shown by Chickenthief was introduced to replace the two different former ones:
M.1908/33 - not for aircraft use
M.1908/34 - for aircraft use
So the M.1908/40 was intended for air and land service. The Danish Air Corps was part of the Army at that time and so there is no different marking or designation ( * ). Impossible to say which unit should end up using the cartridges if it’s not stated on or with the package in any way (haven’t seen such yet).
(*) - Navy is a different story.

About the production 1941/1942: Denmark was occupied on 9th April 1940 but kept it’s sovereignty (more or less … rather less, but that was the official status) and authorities, including (again: more or less) intact Armed Forces. The exception among the German occupied countries! This status did not change until 29th August 1943, when a State of Emergency was imposed by the Germans and the Danish Armed Forces were disbanded in the course of this. But until then, the production of material and ammunition continued (almost) normally. Against this historical background, a Danish production for its Armed Forces needs in this timeframe is common and nothing strange or special - despite the occupation.

About the cardboard boxes: Of what I know, this box-style came to Denmark with the 8x58R Maxim cartridges in 1917 (haven’t seen an older box of this style of true Danish origin yet) and was then taken on there. Made, used & re-used for factory loads, for repacks, for the Armed Forces, for the shooters club, for different cartridges … until the 1950ies.
@Fede: Can you show a picture of 6.5x55 in this particular boxes? (maybe better to open a new thread on this topic)
Especially for 6.5mm I’m only aware of Danish boxes with upper/lower part to open up the large flat side, not the narrow side like the boxes shown above.

@PetedeCoux: Please apology your thread goes this way, but I couldn’t resist to add some facts (omitting as many details as possible). You show us a great crate! Thanks for that.

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Apology not needed. Information is always welcome.

my small collection of Danish CF ammunition

Here it is. Not visible packing date, but most of these boxes date from 1950.

Regards,

Fede

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