Help with ID, no Head Samps

I dug these out today, no idea where of when nor how they came into my hands. I am hoping for an ID, and their approoximate value.

The BIG cartridges:
The Bullets measure .602"/15.3mm at the Case Mouth, Case Mouth = .624"/15.87mm, Overall Length = 2.152"/54.66mm, Case Length = 1.685"/42.11mm, Base = .648"/16.46mm, Rim = .727"/18.48mm.

The two samller cartridges:
Two Inside Primed…
The larger:
Bullet at the case mouth = .491"/12.48mm, Case Mouth = .541"/13.75mm, Base = .5675"/14.42mm, Rim = .662"/16.82mm, OAL = 1.738"44.15mm, Case Length = 1.330"/22.8mm, Bottom to Crimp =.250"/6.37mm.
The smaller, slight bottleneck:
Bullet at the case mouth = .501"/12.72mm, Case Mouth = .535"/13.61mm, Base = .5615"/14.27mm, Rim = .665"/16.89mm, OAL = 1.267"/32.2mm, Case Length = .837"/22.19mm, Bottom to Shoulder = appx. .629"/15.98mm, Bottom to Crimp =.207"/5.25mm.

It might have something stamped on the flat tip of the bullet…? From different angles it looks like it can be an R, W, 3, or B?


Some information here:

Early American Inside Primed, Outside Primed Cartridges (0.50 & 0.58).pdf (2.9 MB)


Top 58 Berdan
Bottom 50-70 US, 50 us carbine

I believe the cartridge on the right in the second group is a US 50 cal. Pistol.

cartguy, you’re right.

Lower left cartridge is a .50 cadet, also called .50 carbine. The true .50 carbine is a .50-70 case loaded with a slightly lighter bullet than the standard .50-70 projectile and having a profile similar to the 405 gr. .45-70 bullet. Jack

Oh, Duh [slaps forhead!], I have another one that someone ID’d for me a couple weeks ago, just did not put 1 and 2 together, thanks!

Thanks, but the smallest cartridge, (slight bottleneck), is not there… I thought the .50 Pistol was a straight walled case…

I am not sure I follow, .50-70 US, equals .50-70 Gov’t, no?

Here is another picture, with a freshly loaded .50-70 Gov’t with 450 grain bulllet. A considerably larger case with the two questionable cases for size comparison, and you can see more clearly the bottleneck shape of the smallest round.

So…? I am slightly more confused.

50 pistol has 3 variations:
Navy RF straight case
Navy CF same case as RF
Army CF slight bottle neck and rim is larger dia same as 50-70

Ah, hence my confusion!
I have only ever seen [read: viewed in person, touched] the straight wall case version, and I have not seen, as far as my old mind can recall, a reference to Navy vs Army cartridges being different.

Much appreciated!

Badge: The cadet and the carbine versions were so called by Frankford Arsenal on their boxes. The cadet length cartridge case did have another use in a Remington carbine hence the commercial firms (WRA at least) made the cadet round with a “50 CARB” headstamp. Jack

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