Help with ID of several cartidges


#1

Background: I buy & sell antiques of various kinds, plus I’m a firearms enthusiast. At a recent estate sale, one of the items I purchased was a ammunition collection. I basically bought a box, and could only see the very top, which was mostly boxed ammo. Turns out the lower layers were loose ammo of various kinds, much of it single rounds. A lot of it was labelled on the headstamps so I could figure it out. But, some is not caliber stamped. I tried researching online myself and was able to figure out some based on measurements but I still have some that I just can’t figure out. A friendly bidder on gunbroker referred me to this forum as a way to try and identify the rounds I could not figure out.

So, I present to you a total of 19 that I could use help with ID (and value, if that is ok to ask). I’m not a member of the .ORG so I won’t be posting it for sale here per the rules I read for the forum. Each one will have some pictures and measurements I have taken using my low-$ digital caliper. Measurements for each one are probably obvious, L1=length to shoulder, L2=length to neck, L3=length of case; neck1=diameter at neck; neck2=(outer)diameter at end of case nearest bullet and bullet is diameter of bullet at end of case.

Thanks in advance for any help!

#1
base=0.537" (13.73mm)
rim=0.458" (11.62mm)
L1=1.662" (42.34mm)
L2=1.847" (46.84mm)
L3=2.328" (5.918mm)
Shoulder=0.409" (10.39mm)
Neck1=0.297" (7.56mm)
Neck2=0.285" (7.25mm)
Bullet=0.257" (6.54mm)

pictures:

#2
base=0.541" (13.74mm)
rim=0.458" (11.65mm)
L1=1.680" (42.66mm)
L2=1.829" (46.46mm)
L3=2.319" (58.90mm)
Shoulder=0.417" (10.59mm)
Neck1=0.294" (7.45mm)
Neck2=0.281" (7.15mm)
Bullet=0.255" (6.48mm)

pictures:

#3
base=0.536" (13.62mm)
rim=0.458" (11.63mm)
L1=1.653" (42.00mm)
L2=1.822" (46.29mm)
L3=2.222" (56.45mm)
Shoulder=0.421" (10.69mm)
Neck1=0.313" (7.96mm)
Neck2=0.285" (7.23mm)
Bullet=0.258" (6.56mm)

pictures:

#4
base=0.536" (13.63mm)
rim=0.458" (11.64mm)
L1=1.701" (43.22mm)
L2=1.799" (45.70mm)
L3=2.301" (58.46mm)
Shoulder=0.411" (10.44mm)
Neck1=0.337" (8.58mm)
Neck2=0.330" (8.39mm)
Bullet=0.308" (7.83mm)

pictures:

#5
base=0.621" (15.78mm)
rim=0.503" (12.79mm)
L1=1.836" (46.63mm)
Neck=0.476" (12.10mm)
Bullet=0.456" (11.60mm)

pictures:

#6
base=0.433" (11.0mm)
rim=0.377" (9.58mm)
L1=0.610" (15.50mm)
L2=1.013" (25.74mm)
Neck=0.376" (9.47mm)
Bullet=0.343" (8.72mm)

pictures:

#7
nearly identical measurements to #6 but looks slightly different to me.
base=0.435" (11.07mm)
rim=0.378" (9.60mm)
L1=0.622" (15.81mm)
L2=1.021" (25.95mm)
neck=0.378" (9.60mm)
bullet=0.342" (8.70mm)

pictures:

#8
base=0.536" (13.63mm)
rim=.477" (12.12mm)
L1=0.840" (21.35mm)
L2=1.274" (32.36mm)
Neck=0.477" (12.12mm)
Bullet=0.435" (11.06mm)

pictures:

#9
somebody wrote on the case “22 carbine” using a sharpie pen
base=0.355" (9.01mm)
rim=0.353" (8.97mm)
L1=0.976" (24.80mm)
L2=1.124" (28.56mm)
L3=1.288" (32.72mm)
Shoulder=0.336" (8.54mm)
Neck1=0.262" (6.66mm)
Neck2=0.251" (6.48mm)
Bullet=0.222" (5.64mm)

pictures:

#10
base=0.469" (11.93mm)
rim=0.466" (11.85mm)
L1=1.511" (38.39mm)
L2=1.684" (42.77mm)
L3=1.925" (48.89mm)
Shoulder=0.415" (10.54mm)
Neck1=0.262" (6.67mm)
Neck2=0.253" (6.44mm)
Bullet=0.226" (5.75mm)

pictures:

#11
base=0.495" (12.59mm)
rim=0.493" (12.53mm)
L1=1.753" (44.55mm)
L2=1.857" (47.18mm)
L3=2.142" (54.41mm)
Shoulder=dang forgot to measure that, will fix
Neck1=0.338" (8.59mm)
Neck2=0.335" (8.52mm)
bullet=0.324" (8.25mm)

pictures:

#12
base=0.468" (11.90mm)
rim=0.468" (11.90mm)
L1=1.887" (47.94mm)
L2=2.074" (52.69mm)
L3=2.479" (62.98mm)
Shoulder=0.439" (11.15mm)
Neck1=0.295" (7.50mm)
Neck2=0.283" (7.20mm)
Bullet=0.258" (6.57mm)

pictures:

#13
base=0.466" (11.83mm)
rim=0.466" (11.83mm)
L1=1.836" (46.64mm)
L2=1.929" (49.01mm)
L3=2.231" (56.68mm)
Shoulder=0.425" (10.80mm)
Neck1=0.357" (9.07mm)
Neck2=0.347" (8.80mm)
Bullet=0.308" (7.84mm)

Note: the projectile in this one looks/feels like wood to me. It also wiggles in place, I have not tried to pull it out. Plus the cartridge itself feels abnormally light weight. Extra photos of projectile showing wood-grain and scratches.

pictures:



#14
base=0.474" (12.06mm)
rim=0.471" (11.97mm)
L1=1.868" (47.45mm)
L2=1.991" (50.59mm)
L3=2.278" (57.87mm)
shoulder=0.430" (10.93mm)
neck1=0.339" (8.63mm)
neck2=0.336" (8.55mm)
bullet=0.311" (7.91mm)

pictures:

#15
base=0.469" (11.91mm)
rim=0.465" (11.81mm)
L1=1.939" (49.25mm)
L2=2.101" (53.38mm)
L3=2.479" (62.97mm)
shoulder=0.436" (11.09mm)
neck1=0.339" (8.62mm)
neck2=0.335" (8.52mm)
bullet=0.312" (7.94mm)

pictures:

#16
base=0.469" (11.91mm)
rim=0.469" (11.91mm)
L1=1.946" (49.43mm)
L2=2.103" (53.42mm)
L3=2.489" (63.22mm)
Shoulder=0.446" (11.33mm)
Neck1=0.351" (8.92mm)
neck2=0.349" (8.88mm)
bullet=0.304" (7.72mm)

Note: corrosion on this one made measuring the L1, L2, Shoulder and Neck1 difficult so those could be off. Any ideas on what is causing the corrosion?

pictures:

#17
base=0.469" (11.93mm)
rim=0.467" (11.88mm)
L1=1.962" (49.84mm)
L2=2.112" (53.64mm)
L3=2.478" (62.95mm)
Shoulder=0.433" (11.00mm)
Neck1=0.346" (8.81mm)
Neck2=0.348" (8.85mm)
Bullet=0.312" (7.94mm)

Note: the throat / neck2 measurement is truly larger than neck1 on both cartridges. I don’t know if that is by design or a problem with them. Look at photos closely (it is tough to see) to see how it looks slightly bulged.

pictures:

#18
base=0.469" (11.93mm)
rim=0.469" (11.93mm)
L1=1.947" (49.46mm)
L2=2.100" (53.34mm)
L3=2.491" (63.27mm)
shoulder=0.434" (11.03mm)
neck1=0.341" (8.67mm)
neck2=0.337" (8.57mm)
bullet=0.309" (7.85mm)

pictures:

#19
base=0.469" (11.93mm)
rim=0.466" (11.85mm)
L1=1.943" (49.37mm)
L2=2.108" (53.55mm)
L3=2.480" (62.99mm)
shoulder=0.442" (11.23mm)
neck1=0.352" (8.95mm)
neck2=0.338" (8.59mm)

pictures:

That’s all of them.

pictures:


#2

#9 seems to me is a .22 Carbine, as stated by the sharpie work. It’s a .30 Carbine casing necked down to take a 0,22" bullet.
#11 - Swiss 7,5x55mm? Has someone pulled the bullet and replaced it?
#13 and 14 are 7,92x57mm IS (commonly nicknamed “8mm Mauser” in the US). #13 is as you say a wood projectile blank.
#15 - .30-06 Springfield.
#17 seem to be reloaded .30-06 Sprgfld, short range practice or hunting reloads?
#18 - .30-06 Springfield
#19 - .30-06 Springfield

There might be mistakes which I suspect more experienced collectors will correct.

  • Ole

#3

I’d say, #1-2-3 wildcats based on the 30/40 Krag, I’d say 25 Krag or similar numbers

#7 38 Long Colt

#9 22 carbine, a wildcat based on the necked down 30M1 case

#11 7.5 x 55 Swiss

#13 7.92 x 57 blank (german)

#14 7.7 Arisaka

#15 30/06 tracer

#17 30/06 guard load

#18 30/06

#19 30/06


#4

#13 is for sure a German 7,92x57 ‘Platzpatrone 33’: more in detail:

Headstamp:
P94 Manufacturer: Kabel- u. Metallwerke Neumeyer A.G., Klingenhofstraße, 72, Nürnberg (va)

IId1 Material code: A combination of a roman numeral (I to XXII) for the steel mill supply of the basic case-metal,
a lower-case letter for the plating agency and an arabic numeral (1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 or 17) for the steel-analysis

    Steel mill code “II” : 	Vereinigte Oberschlessische Hüttenwerke A.G., Gleiwitz (cma)
    Plating facility “d” : 	Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke A.G., Witte & Co., Werk Laband, Oberschlesien
    Steel analysis number “1” : C : 0,15 - 0,22 % / Mn : 0,4 % / Si : 0,12 % / P : 0,03 % / S : 0,03

4 Lotnumber 4

39 Year of manufacturing: 1939

Casing: Copperplated steel case

Charge: 1 gram Nz.Pl.Patr.R.P. (1.5x1.5/0,75) Nitrozellulose Platzpatronen Röhren Pulver (Nitrocellulose tubular powder for blanks)

Primer: Zündhutchen 30/40 verzinkt (primer capsule 30/40, zinc-plated steelcapsel)


#5

Number 4…

.30 Army government contract, Winchester Repeating Arms Co., 1930. Appears unaltered, as are 1,2,3 (wildcats as Pivi said) and retains its original primer and bullet…

Randy


#6

[quote=“orpheus72”]

Primer: Zündhutchen 30/40 verzinkt (primer capsule 30/40, zinc-plated steelcapsel)[/quote]

I am sorry; in 1939 this primer was not invented.

This is a primer 30 black.

Rgds


#7

I’d also say:
#5 45 / 60 Winchester
#6 38 Long Colt
#8 45 Colt M1909


#8

[quote=“dutch”]
This is a primer 30 black.

Rgds[/quote]

Dutch, you’re absolutely correct.
I was confused by the glare of the primer on the picture, and tought it was shiny grey, so i mistakenly tought it was a 30/40.


#9

Cartridge number 11 is the Swiss M90/23 with a replaced bullet. The original bullet was a round nose jacketed bullet of about 190 grains weight. Jack


#10

From the looks of some of the case heads, bullets, and primers, I don’t think I’d want to shoot any of that guy’s reloads.


#11

#12 is a 30/06 necked down to .257". Looking at dimensional data and shoulder angle I’d say it is a standard 25/06, but several 257" wildcats based on the 30/06 case do exist


#12

The 7,7x58SR Japanese is a Chinese Factory production ( Probably 1945-49) during the Civil War /Revolution. Normal Japanese cartridge cases (army) are NOT headstamped.

Other cartridges as Described.
One can go to several “E” collections of Headstamps and Factory codes to Identify all these headstamps. And such Web Pages as “Municion.com” (Spanish) also give designs and specs.

But it is still nice to exercise the “Grey Cells” to Identify everything.

Doc AV


#13

Thanks for all the help everybody.