Help with Unknown Russian Round


#21

9087290
908729217699808


#23

This is an extremely rare cartridge for Tokarev’s submachine gun of the 1927 model.
It is based on the cartridge for the revolver Nagant model of 1895.
To supply cartridges to the chamber of the pistol of the machine gun, the cartridge case was compressed.
These cartridges are characterized by the fact that they were produced only in 1932 and only two plants T and TПЗ.


#24

T and TPZ are the same factory = Tula Cartridge Works.

I would not say that these are extremely rare. Scarce would fit it better.


#25

for Jpeelen

About Mauser drawings (ctges, barrels, guns and so on), a good place is in France.

You have all the parts drawings of the guns (handguns, rifles,machine guns, aso) from about 1880 they made or tested, including the scarce end of war ones (Gerat 06, some Volksgewehrs “pseudo experts” do not know, and so on)

You will find all the ctges gauges,chambers, commercial remits and technical specifications for the contracts.

This gives you intersting info about ctges and sometimes helps to kill legends about such or such ctge (but this is another story !)

Anyway here is a 1937 drawing of 7.63 Mauser if it can help you.

  1. When you compare dimensions you must always compare them at a specific period of time, not how they are nowadays.
    There is little change for the usual ctges but a lot of changes for shotshells and shotguns. (I always freak out when I read people wondering about the gauge of a 1860 shotgun by testing it with nowadays shotshells !)

In our case here is a table showing you the differences between CIP and the oldest references I found.

tableau

If we refer to the old days it shows :
• a 0.02 difference about the maximum bullet diameter (which is nothing)
• a 0.01 difference about the mimimum inside rifling (which is also nothing)
• A 0.05 difference about the maximum outside rifling (7.92 instead of 7.87)

This last point permits
• to the 7.63 Mauser ctges having a maximum diameter to expand from 7.83 to 7.87 = 0.04
• and to the 7.62 Tokarev ctges having a maximum diameter to from 7.85 to 7.92 = 0.07.

JP


#26

Jeanpierre, thanks a lot!!!


#27

Cutaway 7,62 cartridge fot Tokarev SMG… And headstamps


#28

Jeanpierre,
thank you very much for sharing this extremely valuable drawing.
When you write “a good place is in France”, what institution do you refer to? The military archives (at Vincennes, I believe) or some other place?


#29

hello
the military archives, yes
jp