Please help for identify above cartridge
21 and 75 what does means?
9 x 18mm Makarov from Poland, dated 1975
21 = Zaklady Metalowe MESKO, Skarzysko-Kamienna, Poland. Normally found on cartridge headstamps with a date stamped upside down in relation to the factory code (Headstamp Codes, http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes)
Some additional information-
Examples of Polish 9x18mm drill/exercise/dummy cartridges-
Thanks alot for helping soon
Are you sure that it is 9mm makarov?
And about factory code; in the above site there are 3 factory code with 21:
21 = Zaklady Metalowe MESKO, Skarzysko-Kamienna, Poland. Normally found on cartridge headstamps with a date stamped upside down in relation to the factory code
Poland = LAST 2 DIGITS OF THE YEAR DATE STAMPED UPSIDE DOWN IN RELATION TO THE FACTORY CODE
But I rhink it is 9×19mm Parabellum
It is wrong?
Polish 21 marks do have the date upside down unless in a 3 part configuration. Romanian have RPR in the headstamp. Hungarian ones have the date the same orientation as the 21, so yours is definitely made in Poland by Mesko. 9x18mm Makarov. Poland was still communist then and they only made a limited number of calibers, with the 9mm Makarov being one of the Com-Bloc’s most popular hand gun calibers.
Yaserdoma - there is simply no question that the picture of a cartridge
posted here is a 9 x 18 mm Makarov round. In Poland, they did not
use the Makarov Pistol, but rather first the P-64 made at The Radom
factory of Zaklady Metalowe Lucznik S.A. It was replaced later by the P-83
pistol, also in 9 x 18 mm caliber, made at the same factory. Again, these
are not Makarov pistols, simply native polish designs chambered for the
9 x 18 mm Makarov cartridge.
The current primary pistol of Poland is one in 9 x 19 mm Parabellum caliber,
Once again, in the Polish factory name, there are marks with the letters I could
not reproduce here The letters “L” in both “Zaklady” and “Lucsnik” should have
a diagonal line crossing through the vertical part of “l” and “L” (upper AND
lower case “L”).
Thankd john moss
Cartridgecorner, Romania dropped the “RPR” suffix in 1964.
the decision to drop the “RPR” suffix was taken in 1964, this was discussed earlier. Inspite of this RPR continued to mark “RPR 22 65” on brass cased 7,62x39, the most frequent RPR headstamp I can think of in this calibre.
Exactly, Once the RPR was dropped on the code 21 (yes I know the dates), code 21 was not used in Romania any longer but instead they used code 22. That was my exact point of why the sample was NOT Romanian. 100% Polish…guaranteed. lol
The latest use of #21 in Romania I saw in 1989!
Really, can you post a pic of that please. I would love to see that as have not seen anything that late.
Have no image on hand. It is a 14.5x114.
Did a quick look-up and here is one from 1973.
Hi EOD…was there a box with this one? I am asking as to me this looks like the Hungarian code 21 like this one below. Made by Bakony Muvek, Veszprem, Hungary which ceased production of ammunition in 1989.
Code 22 from Romania (with no rpr) I have dates from 1960 - 1987. With the research I have done I have not seen proof of a code 21 used by Romania after 1965. If I am wrong I would gladly accept being wrong and change my data, but I have just not seen anything with a Romanian 21 code past 1965 as I understood they switched to code 22 as it was too confusing with Hungary and Poland having the same code with different orientations of the dates. Can any of our European friends assist.
Happy Hollidays everyone.
Cartridgecorner, the case you are showing is also Romanian.
Hungarian #21 never made 14.5x114.
Hungarian 12.7x108 and 14.5x114 were made by #25.
Romanian #21 is Cugir while #22 is SADU.
Also we have not seen any Romanian #22 coded 14.5x114 as they are not making medium caliber cases…
So nothing was really switched. As we know Romania was just very much into changing and alternating their codes.
Keep in mind that the WAPA factory codes were not allocated by a central entity as all countries were issuing codes as the respective national industry administration was deciding about the numbers and even there we know identical factory numbers within one country. In particular the USSR had a multitude of identical codes issued several times.
Have you seen Romanian code 21 on any other caliber or just the 14.5mm?
added. EOD I just checked my own guide and I had notes of raised 21 HS being used on Romanian headstamp post 1960…lol. Memory getting worse…