Here is Another Good One B. Patrone Sniper Ammo Auction


#1

I thought this auction was rather entertaining.

http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=152859300

Heavyiron


#2

Putting the sniper hype aside what I find interesting about these cartridges is that the cases have been reloaded. Notice the 6 stab crimps, three for the original primer and 3 for reloaded primer. The cases have not been previously fired though. The only loadings that could utilize fired cases were the platzpatronen.

On March 17, 1942 production of S.m.K.H ammunition was halted. The cores of this loading were tungsten-carbide, a strategic and scarce material in Germany at the time. An operation was put into motion to break down the loaded S.m.K.H ammunition to components and salvage the valuable cores for other uses.

The cases of these B-Patrone rounds were once loaded as S.m.K.H. You can find several other loadings in which reprimed S.m.K.H. cases were used. When used for Platzpatrone 33 the cases weren’t even reprimed and kept the original red primer.


#3

[quote=“pbutler”]

The cases of these B-Patrone rounds were once loaded as S.m.K.H. You can find several other loadings in which reprimed S.m.K.H. cases were used.

/quote]

So they thought that in three years of factory storage (1940-43) the primers had gone bad?


#4

German thoroughness even shows on your box label: Cases = Polte, breaking down = hla.
My question: the v for Verbessert is that due to the tubular powder used? All other items seem standard for a b-cartridge.
Soren


#5

schneider,

Good question. At first I was thinking the primers were replaced because the solid red color could lead to mis-identification. But, (not that I have half a clue with this stuff) isn’t the one Phil pictures in the upper right a S.m.K.L’Spur which also could have a solid red primer? If the reprocessed S.m.K.H was segregated to leave the primer in for use with the Platzpatrone 33, why wouldn’t they do that for the S.m.K.L’Spur as well unless they were concerned about primer function as you suggest?

Dave


#6

Soren - am I missing something? You ask about the “v” for the “B-patrone.” I don’t see any use of the “V” designation for B-patrone on this thread. Phil shows a couple of different “v” cartridges, with the proper green stripe on the bullet, but they are not B-patronen, nor are the box labels shown with each one for B-patr. Which rounds are you alluding to?

John Moss


#7

It is my opinion that the primers were replaced mainly so there wouldn’t be any problems with miss-identification of the ammunition. If the red primers were not changed and then the cases were reloaded as S.m.K. (as a large amount were); in the field, out of the box they would look just like the original S.m.K.H. loading. In the case of the Platzpatronen, the wooden bullet solves that problem so there was no need to change the primers.

The S.m.K. L’spur with the red primer is a different situation. During part of 1943 when the type 30/40 (non-corrosive, steel cup) primer was first used on a mass basis the entire primer was painted the same color as the load identifying annulus. This practice didn’t last very long and is normally seen only on cases dated 1943. So this tells us that this case was more than likely reloaded in 1943. It also tells us that the rounds were not loaded for the Luftwaffe as they would only accept ammunition with the type 88 (mercuric, brass cup) primer. Later in the war they would also accept the type 43 (non-corrosive, steel cup) primer. Once out of the box you cannot differentiate between the Zdh. 30/40 and Zdh. 43. If you find a V-munition round with a steel cup primer (not very common) you can bet that it is a Zdh. 43 as that is what the Luftwaffe would accept.


#8

I got to thinking after my last post about why they changed the primers. I thought, what about the S.m.K.H. rounds that didn’t have the all red primer but just a red annulus. After looking through my collection it appears they were changed also.

So, my opinion now as to why the primers were changed is “I don’t know”!

As a footnote; this S.m.K.H. round is one of the same headstamps and in the same condition (pretty grungy!) as the rounds fired in the thread “SmKH vs Smk” in September and all fired with no problems so I don’t believe bad primers were the reason for the change.


#9

I may know what Soren was was referring to. What does “versch.” mean on the box label from the original post? Is that an abbreviation for improved? The bullet color markings are correct for tropical B-Patrone but wouldn’t be correct for B-Patrone tropical improved. If it does mean “improved” shouldn’t the bullet have a green colored ring too?

Heavyiron


#10

heavyiron
I think Soren was referring to the v for Verbessert (improved) as shown on the S.m.K. –v label I posted. This is indicated by the green ring on v-munition bullets. You are correct the B-Patrone on auction are not v-munition but are the Tropical loading as indicated by the black case mouth band and “auch für Tropen” (also for the Tropics) on the label.

The Versch. (Verschieden Lieferung) on this B-Patrone label refers to “various or mixed lots” of cartridge cases, bullets and primers


#11

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Soren - am I missing something? You ask about the “v” for the “B-patrone.” I don’t see any use of the “V” designation for B-patrone on this thread. Phil shows a couple of different “v” cartridges, with the proper green stripe on the bullet, but they are not B-patronen, nor are the box labels shown with each one for B-patr. Which rounds are you alluding to?
John Moss[/quote]The box label for the SmK. Sorry, I got distracted while I was writing that post and never read it through before posting. My bad.
Soren


#12

The reason i stated that the box label text “zerl.” (with a small z) would in my guess mean “zerlegung” = dismantling, breaking down, taking apart, is that “Zerl.” (with the Z) could/would be the noun “Zerleger” which is a part of a completely different cartridge.
Soren


#13

Fist of all „P“ don’t means the factory Polte only.

All 7,9 factories called “P”.
Since 1926 they added a number behind the “P” to confuse the allies.

The interpretation of the label must be read as;

cartridge cases (Patrh.) brass (S*) all manufactories § different lot numbers (versch. L.) take apart (zerl.) by Polte Magdeburg (aux)

The 41 box showed contains P163 S* 12 40 cases. No new primers. Only 3 stab crimps.
The 42, different lot numbers Polte 1940. 6 stab crimps.

All ammo was tested after a particular time on stock. Perhaps the original load tracer had a problem. Also is a shortage of brass cases possible. The German air force only accepted brass cases. When the round was made for “Gesteuerte Maschinengewehren” they fired true the propeller of the air plain. Perhaps therefore the new primer.
Please give attention to the details of the primer 88. “versch” (different). They did not know exactly the lot number from the original primer.

The interesting part of the label is, by the order# they used the old “P” code instead “aux”

Dutch