How Do They Get The 22's Into The Box


#1

Getting ready to go shooting and I am taking my G-dson who has never fired a gun before. Since he is a first time shooter I decided to take my Ruger Mark 1, 22 pistol to the range due to its simplicity, accuracy, and light weight. Anyhow, while loading up my gun bag with boxes of Remington Yellow Jacket Hyper Velocity hollow points I was amazed at how neatly the 50 rounds are packed inside their boxes. I opened up a few boxes so I could count that each box uniformly had 25 rounds pointed up and 25 rounds pointed down. One box spilled and I tried replacing them into the box as the factory did and became way to frustrated, fast. I would love to see a video of a factory loading these boxes. Does anyone have a clue how they pack these boxes so neatly? After opening up a bunch of boxes, there did not seem to be an “Exact” reproducible pattern from one box to another. I would think if a machine packed the bullets it would be a uniform pattern??? Any, just something that boggles my brain :-)

J


#2

Jason
Reproducable pattern? It’s 3(up) 2(up) 3(up)…2(up) If the second box (lower half) dosen’t match the first, simply turn it end for end.

As far as how they stuff the boxes, that would be interesting to see.


#3

A low-cost/high-numbers product calls for machines to make and pack.

Hans


#4

Ammunition packed into Boxes is done by machinery using the same principles as Cigerette packing machines. Cartridges are run along a guide chute, horizontally, and then “stacked” into the shape and order of the final Box. The Box is then “pushed” over the cartridge “bundle” ( which is held in an “artificial Box” used to build up the unit.

The same applies to boxes filled with Trays or nests.

Of course, in the old days ( Mid 50s and before,) all box filling was done by nimble female fingers.

Kent, in his 7,9mm Book, notes that German ammo factories during WW II, used machines and female labour…Loose ( “Ohne Ladestriefen”) cartridges were packed automatically by Fritz Werner machines,( the women only “unfolded” the flat packets, and placed them into the machine loader) whilst “im ladestriefen”" ammo was all Hand packed…the Clips were machine filled.

Of course, in a lot of cheap labour countries, Ammunition is still hand packed into packets, boxes, etc.tThe packers acting as the final Inspection as well.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#5

Actually, you could ask the same question of shotgun cartridges.


#6

A result of this need for automated packaging was that companies like DWM quickly became experts in the packaging machine field.

The packaging machine business is still the core business of a remnant of DWM today and many companies that suppy packaging machines can be linked to ammunition production somewhere in their past :)


#7

Vlim - while SIG Neuhausen, Switzerland, doesn’t make ammo, they do make guns. One of their other main products is packaging machines, or was in the 70s when I visited the firearms factory, the facility right at the Rhine Falls (Beautiful place!!!). They did not make them at that location though. However, they did make railway cars at the Neuhausen factory, and we saw that as well as the gun part. Interesting. They didn’t build engines - just the other rolling stock.

Your reply, as always was right on!

John Moss


#8

In the “Midway” reloading supplies catalog, there is a neat little device for loading shotgun shell boxes. Basicly it is a three sided tray that you load the shotgun shells into, in the alternating pattern, then insert the full tray into the box and remove the tray.

I’ve always wondered about the 8 round eb-bloc clips for the M-1 Garand. Were they machine loaded or all done by hand?

At the Springfield Armory museum, they show the stages of manufacture of the clips, but I do not recall if they mentioned how the clips were loaded…

AKMS


#9

When I was in the Army, some of the ammunition came to us on clips. Other times, we had to load them ourselves at the range. I can’t speak for ammo supplied in combat. Of course, that doesn’t answer the question about machine-loading of clips. Just an observation.

John Moss


#10

That squares with the info I have from friends who served in the 1950’s.

AKMS


#11

[quote=“AKMS”]In the “Midway” reloading supplies catalog, there is a neat little device for loading shotgun shell boxes. Basicly it is a three sided tray that you load the shotgun shells into, in the alternating pattern, then insert the full tray into the box and remove the tray.

AKMS[/quote]
I used to have something similar, brand name was E-Z Sold by MEC if I recall correctly.


#12

Thanks Guys! It was driving me nuts on how they loaded the boxes so nice. Now I need to get the Discovery Channel to do “How They Made That” show on a ammunition plant.

Jason


#13

[quote=“JohnMoss”]When I was in the Army, some of the ammunition came to us on clips. Other times, we had to load them ourselves at the range. I can’t speak for ammo supplied in combat. Of course, that doesn’t answer the question about machine-loading of clips. Just an observation.

John Moss[/quote]

It’s impossible to believe that the inventive genius of Mr Garand didn’t come up with a solution to the loading of en-bloc clips and lo… here it is.

The full set of patent drawings and associated text can be found here;

google.com/patents/about?id= … dq=2345593

Does anyone have a picture of this machine in use?

Happy collecting, Peter


#14

Peter

Very interesting! It made my head hurt to try to read the entire text, but maybe it answers the age old question asked by anyone who has ever used the M1 - is the top cartridge in the enbloc clip on the right or left side? It looks to me like it’s on the right. Anyone see it differently??

Ray


#15

Ya know Ray

I’d heard that same issue come up every time somebody brought out an M1 to shoot. In MYTHBUSTERS fashion, we debunked the myth. Nary a problem, regardless of which side the first round was placed(it’s ambidextrous).
So quit worryin’ about it. :-)


#16

The top round is normally loaded on the right side.

Initially clips were loaded either right or left on top, but it was discovered that something the very early Garands would suffer an "eights round stoppage) where the last round would slip up out of the feeding position and cause a jam. It was determined that a machining error had removed some of the follower guide ribs on the right side of the receiver which allowed this to happen. As a precaution, clips were loaded with the top round on the right (so that the bottom round would be on the left, and not encounter the problem). Springfield promptly changed their machining process, and older receivers were called in and a bit of metal was welded on the critical area and re-machined and the rifles rebuilt and returned to service. (Most had this done when rebuilt to change from the gas “trap” system to the gas “port” design which involved total dis-assembly anyway.)

Thus, although it is no longer necessary to load the clips with top round to the right, it was done that way for many years as a temporary solution to a mechanical problem stemming from a manufacturing shortcut.


#17

Rick

I know, I know. The M1 is designed to function with the clip loaded either way. Every shooter knows that. But it doesn’t stop them from arguing about it until all the beer is gone and they pass out. Now I have some fuel to add to the fire. Not that it will stop the argueing. ;) ;)

Ray


#18

John

Just saw your post. You were posting while I was typing.

Speaking of the old gas-trap M1s, isn’t it interesting that there are outfits now manufacturing a gas-trap kit to convert M1s back to the original design. They sell for BIG bucks. Why anyone would want to do that is beyond my comprehension.

Just an observation, nothing to do with cartridges.

But this does. Many collectors (and shooters) do not realize that National Match Cal .30 ammunition was packed in both cartons and 8 round clips. I have had some old shooters tell me that this just wasn’t so. They claim the ammo in clips was loaded by shooters. They are usually convinced when I show them photos of cans clearly marked “In 8-round Clips.” And the clipped ammo was not any less accurate than the stuff in cartons.

Ray


#19

Just to be different, I load my clips with the top round on the LEFT.
Reason being is that I am left handed and during rapid fire stages of the CMP matches I shoot in, I load the clip with my left hand. Having the top round on the left gives me a bit more leverage to shove the clip all of the way down into the rifle. My M-1 has NEVER jammed, regardless of how the clips are loaded. I can’t even say that about the AK-47 variants I have…

Thanks for the info on clip loading device. Very interesting!

Garand was a mechanical genius. As a side note, my late father-in-law went to school with Garand’s kids back in Springfield, Mass. He always had a deep respect for the man.

AKMS


#20

Drifting further off topic…

Ray’s father in law possibly missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity by not dating Garand’s daughter!
Garand apparently had a couple of his early (unsuccessful) prototype guns at home in his basement. One of the young lads who dated Garand’s daughter spotted on rusting away in a corner and Dad gave it to him, thinking of it as basically worthless junk! There is probably a five figure price tag on that one now!

The repro “gas trap” kits are out there because gun collectors are crazy (unlike rational cartridge collectors!). They would all like to have one of the gas trap Garands, but only an estimated 50 or so escaped conversion to the better “gas port” design everyone is familiar with. Seeing as how the gas traps bring about $25-50K when they do turn up on the market, someone can get a look-alike (maybe even one of the better quality ones that will actually function) for a couple thousand and be happy.