How is this cataloged?


#1

I can’t seem to be able to catalog this round. The nearest thing by dimensions is called a “.22 Short Shot.” However it shows a necked case, which this doesn’t have.

TL = 1.2075”
M = 0.1975”
R = 0.2230”
RT = 0.0555”

This is probably pretty easy to identify, but not by me!

Thanks,
Jones


#2

Jones–That is a 6mm Double Charge Shot. They also come in 6mm Single Charge (about 1/2 the length of yours) and 9mm Single Charge & Double Charge.


#3

Ron,

Thanks, I appreciate the information… but I find no listings for a 6mm Double Charge Shot? Is it considered a shotgun shell? In other words, would it be listed as a Denomination in its self, or is it a just a different type of shot shell?

Say a 12 ga. with #8 shot vs. a 12 ga. with # 7 shot or considered a “different” caliber? Like say a .22 Peabody vs. a .22 JD Jones?

I’m having trouble in wording the question, hope you get the idea.

Thanks,
Jones


#4

The Acorn denotes RWS manufacture, and probably for a variety of “.22”/6mm single shot “Rifles” with smooth bores, and labelled “6mm Glatt”…the general design is the same as .22/6mm “Boys Rifles”. (Bolt action, half moon extractor, simple stock and fixed sights.). There were also Trapdoor and “Rolling Block” types of actions as well. The 9mm RF version is also known, though mostly in a Warnant trapdoor action.

Also known as “Garten-Buchse” or “Garten-flinte” (Garden guns), suitable for taking small vermin in gardens.

The seemingly “Bottle-neck” design is to allow the shell to fit any chamber of the .22/6mm type ( Short, Long etc) as the paper tube will go into the lead of the rifling.

Fiocchi still makes the 9mm RF version.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics


#5

Jones,

These are commonly known as flobert cartridges based on the guy who invented them. The guns and cartridges would most often be labeled “flobert”. There are actually a couple boxes for this exact cartridge for sale on eBay right now. When I get home I will try to find the link, as well as post a picture of this box in my collection.

I label these as “6mm Flobert long shot” but “long” can be replaced as “double charge” which some boxes and catalogs refer to them as.

But nearly all boxes and catalogs use the term “flobert” to identify this (and other flobert cartridges) cartridge.

One big noticeable exception is Winchester who made a flobert cartridge in 9mm in both single and double charge shot variety, in black powder, smokeless, lesmoke as well as a couple other varieties. The just refer to it a 9mm shot.


#6

Here is that eBay link by the way,
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-6mm-Flobert-system-cartridge-box-tin-/190481530668?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item2c59957f2c#ht_500wt_922

Notice the “system flobert” on the picture


#7

Jones
You could catalog it a few ways, rimfire, shotgun, etc

Below is a 6mm, 7mm, 9mm single, 9mm double and a 410 2 1/2" for scale


#8

Thanks to every one for the education on RF’s! Having the background information on the use of the cartridge goes a long way in understanding on how to classify it.

I’ve decided that I’ll catalog it as .22 Short Shot - 6 mm Flobert Long. I have difficulty in understanding the many variables in the naming of specific cartridges. But I guess it would take the fun out of trying to identify them!!! Of course that’s what many of the posts on the forum is about… different views or thoughts on a subject!

Also, from this, I can see how .22’s can be a specialty collection in its self!

Thanks to All,

Jones


#9

Jones–It would be incorrect, in my opinion, to name them as any type of .22. They are Floberts and are metric. These come in 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9mm, but are never designated as .22 cal. Besides the shot loads they all come in ball loads with the case length of approximately the length of the metal part of the shot loads. Most come in a pointed ball and a round ball.


#10

Ron,

After reconsideration, I have to agree with you. Also Municion shows a 6mm Flobert, in their listing, that appears identical (except for the headstamp) to my cartridge. I realize that forign manufactures, at times, produce US caliber ammunition, but generally not in obscure calibers.

We’ll just go with the 6mm Flobert Long designation.

Would you hazard an opition on the approximate date(s) of production?

Thanks again,

Jones


#11

Jones–I would date your cartridge as about 1960, but it is hard to tell. RWS has made these since about 1920 or before and other companies have made them since about 1870. There are 100’s of variations. It has not been mentioned that, besides the paper tubes, they come in all nickled and in all brass. Also, the “System Bosquette” (sometimes called Double Culot) are two piece cases of copper and brass together.

Here are the pages from the RWS 1938 Export Catalog.


#12

Ron,

Thanks! The catalog is very informative! I will add this information into my database.

It is gratifying to see someone take the time and effort to help. People like you (and others) in IAA makes it a wonderful organization, to which I am most grateful.

Best regards for the Holidays!

Jones