Hungarian SAA dated 1945-1950


#1

Does anybody have Hungarian made SAA made between 1945 and 1950?
If so what are the calibers and headstamps?
Do images and boxes exist?


#2

I guess you won’t find any. AFAIK the machinery of ML in Veszprém was taken to west by the retreating German army between January and February of 1945. ÁH in Budapest was destroyed in the bombing raids. The only box from that period was a Czechoslovakian PS made 7.9 Mauser with Hungarian label.
The devlopment of the new infrastructure (Factory no. 22, 23) finished in '52-53. Veszprém (21) could have been started production earlier though.

V.


#3

Vince, thanks! I did not know the machinery was taken away by the retreating Germans.

So who can have made these 7.65x17SR?


#4

That’s exactly what i wanted to add to my post, but didn’t have time riding the bus. I think they are from FÉG from a relatively small scale production for the police.


#5

I have the same box in my collection only no cartridges.


#6

Bob, lucky you!

I wish we knew the original headstamps for this box.

Vince, maybe some Hungarian researchers do know more?


#7

I have a box (pink label) with exactly the same top-label, for 7.65 mm rounds, but dated from 1939. It is clearly marked with the Feg name (Femaru-, Fegyver-es Gepgyar Rt., Budapest - pardon the lack of proper punctuation of the various letters - I have never been able to duplicate these on this venue).

I also have the top and part of the side labels for the 9 m/m 29 M cartridge, the same format as my box for 7.65 mm, but in pale green (probably faded). It is dated from 1943. Sadly, at some point, a single diagonal line was penned corner to corner of the label, in essence to cancel it, and it is handwritten “7,65 m/m” with the “m/m” marking being quite vertical like on the original 7.65 and 9 m/m 29 M labels. It is also marked in pen “21 St.” which leads me to believe that the box was packed with 21 rounds of 7.65 mm ammo, and that the hand-written notes were done by a German-speaker (St for Stuck, rather than the Hungarian “srb.” marking). All conjecture, of course.

My 7.65 mm box contains cartridge with headstamp * I * I * I * I, Feg’s normal headstamp for when these round were made. I have no box specimen for the 9 m/m 29M box, either for 9 mm (.380 Auto) or the 7.65 mm that evidently was later put in the box. I have no doubt, though, that the headstamp of the original ammo for the 29M box was the same as that I have shown for my 1939 7.65 m/m box.

So, it seems thaqt FEG used the same box-label format from at least 1939 until at least 1948.

John Moss


#8

John, thank you for further elaborating on this!

Now I wonder, if FEG has made these, how would they have done when machinery was gone since early 1945?

And maybe a stupid question or thought:
When it says “St”, it also could referr to the German “Stahlhülse” (steel case) - unless it is explicitely connected to the 21 and then is denoting the quantity of course.
But if “steel” could this also be repacked German pre 1945 ammo then?


#9

EOD - It is directly related with the figure “21” which I take to be the quantity. Why anyone would even to scribble in handwriting a cancellation of the original 9 mm (short) caliber label and then write 7.65 m/m and the quantity, though, is beyond me. I got no cartridges of any caliber with this box top, so have no idea of the ammo in it.

It certainly does not give the appearance of an official repacking, but rather from someone who just used the empty box to put some loose 7.65 mm Browning rounds in it.

I acquired the box top at a very reasonable price, even for the condition, and was glad to get even a tampered partial box (meaning not all the box is there, not referring to the contents). I think it is not a common label in the US. I care nothing about its rarity, however, simply for the label and its information. It coupled nicely with my pretty nice 1939 7.65 mm label.

John M.


#10

John, indeed, reusing cartridge boxes for what ever other ammo (and purpose) is not uncommon. In particular in situations (times and places) where almost everything is in short supply.

It appears the box/label is not even common in Europe.


#11

Ok, I found that there are also Hungarian made 7.62x54R with hs “V 50” (later coded #21).
So I assume they must have had a running SAA industry by 1950 at least.