Hunter Headstamp


#1

A user of my website emailed me this “Hunter” headstamp. Does anyone know anything about this cartridge. It appears to resemble a CBC product. Can anyone confirm. Sorry the photo is not that clear.


#2

Cor Bon’s “Hunter” line comes to mind, but they don’t list .38spl as a caliber in that line, and I hadn’t seen this headstamp anywhere before either.


#3

Just an update. I heard from the guy who sent me the pics. He is in fact from Brazil, so it is likely as I suspected that these are made by CBC…but for whom? and when. He has a half dozen, all .38 Spl…no box


#4

As I found time, I have been hunting for reference to a “HUNTER” company in the ammunition business. It is not in Otto Witt’s great work on .38 Special/.357 Magnum.

The only thing I have found is a HUNTER brand ammunition box for .45 Auto Rounds, made in Thailand by Olympic Arms and Ammunition (Thailand) Co. Ltd., in Nakhonsawan, Thailand. Many of these brands are reloads, but some have had their own headstamp. Thai Arms, and Bullet Master, for example, are both represented in my collection by headstamps on auto pistol cartridges. It is not, in my view, impossible that they might have received brass from CBC, although I will admit that the only thing about that .38 headstamp that looks “CBC” to me are the two semi-circular lines.

It might be an avenue to approach, anyway - Thai manufacture, that is.
Although darned scarce - some very rare like BM on Bullet Master rounds, the fact is, some Thai commercial cartridges have made it to America.

My HUNTER box, by the way, is up to Modern standards, with a BAR CODE, the “Keep out of Reach of Children,” the usual safety “Warning” Statement, all in English by the way - no Thai language writing anywhere on the box. The box is good quality with decent and modern art work.

Then again, it may have nothing at all to do with the HUNTER .38 Special headstamp. I simply don’t know one way or the other, but thought I would throw this into the pot since there seems to be no other knowledge of a HUNTER brand ammunition forth-coming.


#5

Thanks Otto, that is a great and reasonable line of thought as well. I appreciate it and will try and see what I can find on that front as well.


#6

Cartridge Corner - I think you meant “John.” My dear friend and mentor Otto Witt passed away some time ago.

Looking for another box in my collection, I found that I also had a HUNTER (Thailand) box for .38 Super Auto caliber ammunition, of quite different pattern than the .45 box. It is obvious that HUNTER in Thailand offers (offered?) a wide line of pistol calibers, so .38 Special could be one of those.


#7

If Lew Curtis is reading this, this will probably interest him as well. Doing a search of Olympic Arms and Ammunition (Thailand) Co. Ltd., I found a document which was a pre-License end-user check on an application. It is way too long to copy here, so I suggest people with an interest look it up on their search engines under the company name above, as did I.

At any rate, it will interest some to know that our “old acquaintance” Vasili Papadupolos had his hand in this business in Thai land as well, and seems to have backed-out as appears to be what he has done on other ventures to do with ammunition manufacture.

At any rate, the above name was a change from "The Golden Arms Co., Ltd., that took place on August 17, 1999.

Olympic was certified under Thai law to make 9 mm, .38, and .45 Ammunition. It does not say which form (case type) of “.38” ammo was authorized. My box is .38 Super. It is possible that under such a broad interpretation of caliber as simply “.38” the company amy have been able to make .38 Special or any other case type with “.38” in its designation. I just don’t know.

For more information, I will ask people to locate the document as suggested above, as it is one page and a half of very small print. To reproduce it here other than as a scan would be difficult for me with my 74-year old eyes, and much of the document would probably bore 85 - 90% of the people on the Forum who might look at it.

It does NOT provide any definitive evidence that the HUNTER .38 Special headstamp has anything to do (or the opposite, for that matter) with this company.


#8

So do these HUNTER boxes have lot numbers? Perhaps the format of the lot number will indicate the manufacturer, no matter what the headstamp is.


#9

Thanks John. Yes slip of the tongue in names as was thinking about our old friend.

I have the bullet master and Thai arms 38’s and they are different. Maybe contract made or as you say the old Olympic Arms coming up in a place someone will deal with him…lol
dArtagnan, no box available just 4 sample cartridges.

Hopefully more will turn up.


#10

Somewhere, there is a “Hunter bunter”

sorry! :-)


#11

Tony - I like headstamp bunters - the actual steel bunter I mean, and over the years have found a few. Does that make me a “Bunter hunter?”

Lord, and everyone on the Forum, forgive me for this entry. The Devil made me do it.


#12

The Devil has made you do a lot of things over the years. I know cause I have been keeping a list!!!

So our old “friend” Vasili Papadupolos, has surfaced again! I wonder if the Ukraine has ever collected from him for the high tech 9mm loading line he illegally acquired from them?

Note that the style of Thai headstamps doesn’t really matter in my opinion. I believe they acquire cases from a number of manufacturers, most recently Armscor and S&B. I would not be surprised if CBC Brazil was also a supplier! I would not be surprised if much of the ammo was actually made by contractors for the dealers in Thailand. Perhaps our friend at Forensic Ammo would have an insight.

I think dArtagnan has a good suggestion. The format of the box codes could tell a lot.

I have frankly been confused by the Thai manufacturers and the various names on boxes. I wonder if they are in fact independent companies.

Cheers,
Lew


#13

The document that John is probably referring to is this link, and bulleted item #6 is where it mentions the Hunter brand name:

https://thaicables.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/05bangkok3045-blue-latern-level-3-pre-license-end-use-check-on-application-05-955010/


#14

M only concern with the Thai angle is that these headstamps are found in Brazil and I am not sure that Brazil would be an importer of Thai commercial ammo when they have CBC in their back yard and some strict laws on importation of ammo. It is possible for sure, but I am still leaning towards CNC or CBC cases for Thai manufacturer possibly…hopefully a box turns up.


#15

Cartridgecorner - who is “CNC?” As I mentioned straight on, these cases could well be made by CBC of Brazil, and perhaps a contract for Thailand. The fact that they were found in Brazil, along with the typical CBC radial lines on the headstamp, points to manufacture of the cases there. Since we don’t know under what circumstances they were found, it leaves open the possibility that they were cases left over from a contract for someone, possibly Hunter Brand of Thailand, and were either used up and mixed in with domestic CBC ammo, or perhaps just left over rounds that someone found interesting and “requisitioned” from the factory. All conjecture of course. Actually documenting rounds like these is next to impossible without good and accurate contacts at the factory believed to have made them (and contacts at factories are not always “accurate,” believe me. I know that from my own past research projects), or unless a full box is found to give us the label information.

By the way, Sako of Finland has used those radial lines on headstamps in the past, and are known to have made .38 Special brass on contract.
The “MARKELL” headstamped cases were made by Sako for a San Francisco Gun Shop, now gone, on JudaH Street in S.F., and owned by the Markell Family. They had a large reloading business, primarily police calibers of the time, and also occasionally used “new brass” for their loading operation.


#16

Sorry John. Yes great points. My error…CNC was to be CBC…just a spelling error.


#17

I have a picture of what I believe is the box for these “Hunter” headstamped cartridges but I’m afraid I know nothing about it except that it was for sale empty on US Ebay (is not there anymore). It doesn’t reminds me of anything I have seen before and is definitely not a Thai box.


#18

Fede - the picture of the bear makes me believe, also, that this is not a Thai box, but why did you rule that out completely and definitively?

Like Thai boxes it is very colorful. Also, Thai companies seem to use a huge assortment of box art designs for even the same company and calibers. I have a fair number of Thai boxes, and very few duplicate any others.

So. just curious why you felt so strongly it wasn’t Thai. As I say, I tend to agree, but not with certainty.


#19

John, what I mean to say is that this is not the .38 Special Hunter brand box made by Olympic Arms/RAI. In fact, the Hunter .38 Super box that you have in your collection is a Hunter .38 Special box with added labels.


#20

I have emailed this company below and they say they have had ammunition made for them with the Hunter headstamp. He gave me a link to their webpage. We have a bit of a language barrier but I am asking (and sending the photo) of my sample to confirm whether these were made by or most likely for them or not. I will update when I hear back. But here is an exerpt from their translated webpage. Interesting either way…
"
Acting in the segment of fused projectiles since 1987, serving initially the shooting market, Hunter, in 1994 extended its activities also to the security sector, consolidating its position in the segment of definitely projectiles.
In 1998, Hunter founded the company Ricardo Rodrigues Louzada Rinaldi-“towards the Sun”, to act in the distribution and representation of products aimed at shooting, private security and vigilante training centres.

From 2002, with the growing participation in these markets, there was the need to modernize their productive sector, having thus obtained the monthly production capacity of 2,000,000 of projectiles.

With this new condition, Hunter, part towards its own industrial park, acquiring land in the Vale do Ribeira with 2,880,000 m2, approximately, where will the production sectors of projectiles, powder base simple, cases and primers.

So is the Hunter, the impossible we do today, it takes a miracle day!"

hunterr.com.br