I.D. of projectile ? (discussing 7x57 Mauser or 8 mm or ?)

Hi all, I’m looking for help identifying this projectile. I dug this up in a WW1 battlefield in France (in the area of Seringes-et-Nesles). I originally thought it was 8mm Mauser but it seems to be exactly 7mm in diameter. There is a mark at the base of the projectile (looks like a German ‘Fraktur’ type-face “M”). There looks to be a small channel around the diameter that I assume could be from crimping it into the case? My only other theory is some sort of hunting bullet as boar hunting is common in that area-- or it has absolutely nothing to do with ammunition :laughing: What are your guy’s thoughts?

Thanks all,
Seth






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7x57 Mauser for M1915 Fleiger Selbslader Gewehr ( aka Mondragon M1908 built by SIG, acquired by Germany initially for Ground use, but then switched to arming Airservice Balloon and Aircraft observers.

Very rare and nice find.
Doc AV

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That makes sense, that thing totally slipped my mind! Any idea of what the “M” marking means? Thanks a lot DocAV! :smiley:

Seth Moore

The ‘M’ indicates production at the Spandau munitions facility.

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Taking measurments of a diameter from a bullet with a Lineal is not very accurate. This still can be a 8mm, depending on the angle the photo where taken.
What is the weight of this in grains or grams exactly?
Pp

Looks like a 8mm to me.

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Hi, for me it’one classic bullet from 7.9 CTG M 88 …

Draw SFM 1890
Bsrg, Dan

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thx DAN, for this SFM Drawing. I havent had this…I have the cartridge with the same hs…
Ah, by the way, the title should be corrected, as there is no FLEIGER, and no SELBSLADER…correct it must be: FLIEGER SELBSTLADE-GEWEHR…even if I do not believe, that this bullet is belonging to the 7mm Rifle…
Thats, why I asked for the weight and a measurement with a caliber/micrometer…

PP

Thanks for the Spelling Correction on my original assumption of Bullet ID.
Bullet diameters should always be measured with Dial or Digital Calipers ( or Preferably, Micrometers)
And Bullet weight in Grains and Grams.
Patrone 88 were used in initial
Years of WWI, being gradually replaced by Patrone S ( in M88 Clips) and by Gew98s.
I should have recognised the Gothic “m” as being a Spandau product.
Thanks for all the corrections, and especially the SFM designs.

Is there an accessible source for SFM and DWM cartridge designs???

Doc AV
AVBTechServices…Producer of Brass CNC Projectiles to Military Profile.
Australia.

Hi Peter,
Did you had noted that the drawing provided by munavia is titled “cartouche mannlicher”???

Laurent, je pense, le nom derivee par le clip, design mannlicher…
I think the name derived from the used m88 Clip design, which was a Mannlicher typ.

There was before a austrian 8,2 (already) x 57 for the belgian trials…but that one had nothing to do, with the german m88, as the germans at that time had the 8,05mm diameter bullet as shown above.
SFM nomes are sometimes erratic, as they used the names under which they got the samples itself.
Have a good time
Peter

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All the German ML 1888 drawings & cartridges build by SFM use “mannlicher”
( i assume the clip & Kommission rifle is clearly for me one Mannlicher system) . The name was used by SFM for the Mle 88 during a long périod, but not only frenchs …
The first is foto from web , the other coming from me …


03284=10 CTG Mann ALL 7.90 M1888 Juin 1903=179



Bsrg, Dan

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Other samples of draws
Bsrg, Dan






For IAA member, note we have DWM draws in Ressource center
Bsrg, Dan

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Buisness is buisness … .



Bsrg, Dan

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Here is the UMC box in color.

Cartridges are in clips just as Dan shows.

UMC 8MM BOX 10001

UMC 8MM BOX 10002

Randy

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Do we have consensus of what the correct ID is?

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Still I am curious for the diameter, seems more 8 then 7 mm…

In any case, the Mondragon 7 mm rifle in German use was called “Flieger-Selbstladekarabiner 15” (not …gewehr). Its bullet diameter, like other 7 mm rifles, was 7.2 mm.

Corrected typo. Thanks, Hans.

Not yet, as we still have no actual real measured bullet diameter…only if the diameter is 7,2mm it is belonging to the FSLK, if 8mm, its bockstandard bullet from M88…

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@Jochem, it certainly was not called “Fileger…”