Id. 9 mm PAK_CODEX_CR_LFP


#1

Hi
Who knows the manufacturer and country of origin of this blank cartridges ?



#2

CODEX is Turkish, highly likely Özkursan made.


#3

Thats possible, but I have the 9mm /.380 Revolver-Blanks in Boxes (black with red stripes) without any maker given. But the ammo is CIP-proofmarked from the czech proofhouse. From the 9mmPAK I do have only a few loaded ones…
If nobody can confirm the “turkish” source, I will ask the proofhouse for the distributeur/ distributor…he should knew the maker…

PP

Sorry for the confusion, I had to correct the name of the proofhouse…I was maybe influenced by the letter M in the Proofmark, considering this as an abbreviation for Magyar…which it is not.
Thx to Mr. Emil Hamza, the technical director of the hungarian Proofhouse for correction of this mistake…
PP 23-4-2012


#4

Codex Alla, Turkey. Most headstamps I have seen are hard to read as they are lightly impressed and look like poor quality though I have never fired any. Have only seen blank and special purpose ammo by them. These are common in Germany where all my samples came from.Box almost identical to Ozkursan…see both below.


For sale at this site: shoot-club.de/Munition-oxid/ … tueck.html


#5

There is also a new brand of Blank and specialty munitions called GSG9 made by YAS Turkey. Has anyone seen the headstamp or know if it is YAS or GSG9?


#6

Thank you, it’s very interesting! and you know LFP or CR?


#7

I have CR still listed as Unknown and LFB as Laboratory for Ballistics, Germany. The latter manufactures, specialty and military munitions.


#8

There doesn’t seem to be a lot of information on the Internet regarding headstamps on the 9mm PAK cartridges. Does anybody have some identified headstamps that they can post?


#9

Do these factories produce the 8 mm Blank too?

I collect 8 mm Blank ammo, so I would be interested to get a sample from each factory


#10

The headstamp in question on the blank ammo is LFP, not LFB.
The german company LFB uses cases bought abroad and mark them on the outside, so far I have seen. They are not involved in blank ammo, just in small batches (up to 30.000 rds) of hunting ammo and occassionally in very small batches of more or less experimental ammo for military/Police use.

PP
PS: I have corrected my first answer about the origin of the proofhouse…see at that place…


#11

[quote=“Pivi”]Do these factories produce the 8 mm Blank too?

I collect 8 mm Blank ammo, so I would be interested to get a sample from each factory[/quote]

Some HSTP :

CR : ?
Geco : Gustav Genschow & Co. (Germany)
GFL : FIOCCHI (Italy)
GOP : Pobjeda (Gorazde - Bosnie-Herzégovine) >Umarex,
HP : HIRTENBERGER (Austria)
LFP : ?
OZK : ÖZKURSAN (Turkey),
PTS : UMAREX, VEB Pyro Technisch Silberhütte (Sportwaffen GmbH & CoKG) (Germany),
RWS : Rheinisch-Westfälische Sprengstoff AG (Germany),
S&B : SELLIER & BELLOT,
SK : SK Jagd u. Sportmunitions G.m.b.H (Schönebeck - Germany),
SM : Chemnitzer Sportwaffen und Munitionsfabrik GmbH (Chemnitz - Germany),
SPORT : SELLIER & BELLOT,
UMA : UMAREX, VEB Pyro Technisch Silberhütte (Sportwaffen GmbH & CoKG) (Germany),
UNIS : UNIS-POBEDA (Gorazde - Bosnie-Herzégovine),
WILD CAT : ?
YAS : YAVASCALAR (Balikesir - Turkey),


#12

WILCAT is italian. I have the box and the cartridges

municion.org/8/8mmStarter.htm

Bad ammo in my Beretta

Fiocchi produces several variations


#13

“Blank fire” Pistol replicas are made in Turkey ( over the last few years, we were Bombarded with offers of distribution), as well as in Germany (Umarex) and Italy (Bruni srl)

Up to the 1990s, the old standby, the 8mm “Alarm u Signal” patrone was the standard; with the development of the 9mmPAK ( a cartridge which will not fit in an existing 9mm cal firearm, nor will proper 9mm Ball fit in a 9mmPAK Plank firer…for obvious security reasons.
The 9mm PAK is best described as a 9mmx22.5 case, similar dimensions to a .223 Body, with a crimped in Plastic capsule containg the Powder…to allow for the pressure to build up sufficiently to activate the mechanism of the Gun ( Mostly Cast metal Parts) …and there exist two types of most manufacturers…Top venting ( Muzzle completely blocked off) and Front venting ( made like a normal Movie Gun, with internal barrel restrictor), to give the proper “Muzzle flash” effect for Films.

The “PAK” stands for “Pistolen Automatische Knall” ( Pistol Automatic Blank); The Germans standardised the design, and it has been copied by most major makers of ammo. Somewhere I have a full specs design supplied by S&B when I enquired about “9mm Parabellum” Blanks for Movie use…they quoted me on PAK blanks instead. ( we now make our own 9mmPara Movie Blanks using either Starline 9x29 Magnum cases, or reworked 5,56 Miulitary cases—the former for Pistol blanks, the latter for hotter SMG blanks.)

WE don’t use “PAK” Pistols as they are (1) fragile…drop one on set and it is more than likely to fracture; ( 2) legally, in Australia, they are considered the same as real guns, so no advantage in paperwork.( Different from Europe, where both 8mm and 9mm PAK-type blankfirers are “free to adults”.

And if by mistake we used our standard 9mm Para blank ( ie, a .223 based one) the PAK pistol would probably chamber it, and then “come apart at the seams” in a spectacular manner. ( they are simple “Blowback” modifications of the original Locked breech designs.)…Many PAKs “modified” by DIY gang-bangers in Europe usually end up with some missing Fingers, an eye, or other part of the anatomy when trying to fire real ammo in them…

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services.
Brisbane Australia


#14

Doc,

only top venting blank replicas are free for adults in Italy. The other replicas, able to fire flares are considered real weapons and you have to get a license to buy them


#15

Here in the UK only the top venting type are legal. They recently bought in a new law that says that for blank firing guns sold currently, 50% of the gun has to be painted in an “unrealistic colour”. This is usually dayglow orange or green. You can get an exemption from this if you can prove that you are using it for TV, film or theatrical work. The same law also applies to softair pellet guns and non-firing replicas.