ID 9x19 projectile low emission


#1

Hello,

can anyone identify this German 9x19 projectile with low environmental emission.
Note the crimped base plate, the tinned steel jacket (magnetic) et the slight crimping groove.

Could this be the German DM51 ?

Thank you in advance,

JFL

9x19%20proj%20SR-base9x19%20proj%20SR


#2

Almost right. This is the bullet for the DM51. The official name for the round is : Patrone, 9mmx19, DM51, Weichkern

Rolf


#3

There is NO Bullet, with Type DM51, or DM41 a.s.o…
The “Ammunition/loaded ammo” DM41 or the DM51 and the Standard Sintox, using that same bullet, but are different in construction of the case and the used powder.
In 2012 I got the following answer from RUAG:
"Das GeschoĂź wird von RUAG Thun, RUAG Stadeln und MEN hergestellt. In der Regel von RUAG Thun.
Die 9mm Standard Sintox hat eine HĂĽlse mit Zentralloch.
DM 41 fĂĽr BMI hat eine HĂĽlse mit 2-Loch.
DM 51 fĂĽr BWB hat eine HĂĽlse mit 2-Loch und Hinterstich.
DM 41+51 haben das gleiche TLP.
Die 9mm Standard Sintox hat einen anderen TLP-Typ und ist keine DM 41 oder 51, verwendet wird aber das gleiche GeschoĂź. Sie unterscheiden sich durch Pulver und HĂĽlse.
Translation:
The BULLET in question is manufactured by RUAG Thun, RUAG Stadeln and MEN,
since 2013 in the same manner. (Addition from me:Before 2012 the construction of the bullet was different between RUAG and MEN.

The ammunition 9mm Standard Sntox has a case with (primerpocket) centerhole (Boxer primed)
The DM41 for BMI (Ministry of Interior/Police) has a primerpocket for Berdan primer 2-hole
The DM51 for BW (Army) has a primerpocket for Berdan Primer 2-hole with “Hinterstich”, means the backpart of the primerpocket is a little bit “wider”, to allow the backpart of the primer to “inflate at the back” to keep them better in the primerpockets and avoiding setbacks of the primer itself on firing…

DM51 and DM41 have the same powdertype.
The 9mm SINTOX Standard uses an other Powdertyp (TLP = Treibladungspulver) and is by no means the same as the DM41 and DM51…
They all are using only the same bullet.
A pic of the bullets delivred to us is here:

Geschoss%20DM41-DM51%20a


#4

Just as addittion:
Geco or RUAG has produced the 9mm bullet (for the mentioned ammunition Types Sintox Standard, DM41 and DM51) before 2013 as pictured in the following photo on the right.
MEN has always before and yet produced this bullet in the form on the left.
From 2013 on, this bullets are all of the construction seen on the left in the pic by booth manufacturer…

The difference was:
MEN used just a crimped in base plate to avoid contact of the inside lead with the TLP (and avoiding leadfumes from the burning powder).
GECO/DAG/RUAG used before a baseCUP, as seen in the photo to reach the same effect.

Thats the reason, as we couldnt use Geco bullets in tests, as the Penetration was slightly higher, due to the re-enforcement of the bullet at base…
Now they using the same construction…
photo attached…Copyright by FAS Wellen
9mm%20DM41%20Geco


#5

Thank you very much for these very accurate information, which was exactly what I was looking for.

Most important to learn the two types of projectiles according to the closing disk architecture.
I confirm that my specimen corresponds to the old type from GECO/DAG/RUAG with long closing cup as displayed in Peter’s photo on the right side.

Also noted that the old type might not be compatible with standard VPAM level 2 and 3.

Cheers,

JFL


#6

I have come across a similar type of bullet; Geco 9mm Luger SX. Please see the 2 images attached.


#7

For completeness, here are the sides of the packet and lot number.


#8

Excellent information with the boxes, thank you very much.


#9

This Boxes belongs to the above mentioned “Standard Sintox” for sales to the public.
It uses the exact same bullet as used in the Ammo Type DM41 and DM51, except other case construction and a different powder, as it has a Boxer-Primer. The number on the box outside is the official order number 2314839 for dealers.
The imprint in the sideflap is the production date…
PP