ID for cartridge headstamped 17 Z

Can anyone identify the maker- 17 at 12 o’clock and Z at 6 o’clock? Thanks.

Guy, a pic would be a big help here. Are you sure it’s not a ‘K-17 II’ using a bad bunter?

here are the pictures:



Note: I originally had this identified in the subject as a 7x57 Mauser - not sure why I didn’t notice that rim. I suspect it may be a 6.5 x 53 Mannlicher, but reallly don’t know; the photos were sent to me with a question about the maker and the owner didn’t provide an id or measurements.

It is 6,5 Dutch, 1917, and the brass supplier code is Z. It was made at the government factory.


I do not think it is a code for a supplier.
It is a code for the brass Batch.

Just read that in the book;
The Dutch Mannlicher M95 and the 6.5x53.5 R cartridge.


I had noticed that the brass supplier letter for Dutch rifle ammo in the second decade of the twentieth century seemed to be proceeding in an alphabetic fashion (I’ve got a U for the year 1915, I think) and am glad to have the significance of the letter system explained. Which then brings up another question: what did they do after Z?

For Guy I have yet another question: What is the jacket material of your Z 17 headstamped cartridge? CNCS is usual for Dutch rifle ammo, but not necessarily in the Great War period.


Dutch is correct. There are 14 different brass suppliers they were buying from around the world, and the letter designates the lot, not necessarily a particular supplier. I imagine there is probably a record somewhere that tells which supplier a particular lot was from. Thanks for pointing that out, as I had it incorrect in my mind!

Dave: Was Basse und Selve one of the brass suppliers? I ask because I have a 6.5 cartridge dated along about 1912 or '13 headstamped BS or B.S. and had always more or less assumed it had been made of material supplied by B & S. The one sure thing about Dutch headstamps is that they provide a never-ending source of amusement for the collector. Jack

Jack, I do not know if Dave has the book of the 6,5 Dutch.
The 14 brass suppliers these days were;

Carl Berg; Hagen; Werdhol Germany
Schweizerische Metallwerke Selve & Co; Thun; Swiss
Basse & Selve Messingwerke; Altona; Germany
Kupfer und Messingwerke A.G. Hirsch; Berlin; Germany
Mansfeldscher Metallhandel; Berlin; Germany
Kynoch Ltd.; Birmingham, United Kingdom
Svenska Metallverke; Stockholm; Sweden
Bridgeport Brass Company; Bridgeport; USA
Gorham Manufacturing Company; New York; USA
The Waclark Wire Company; Elisabeth; USA
Metal Productions; USA
Symour Manufacturing Company; Symour; USA
National Conduit & Cable Company; USA
Fabrique National des Armes du Guerre; Herstal; Belgium.


Dutch: Thanks much for the list. Jack