ID for this 8x54R Dummy?


#1

I hope the link and pic are usable. Can anyone help ID this round?
Thanks.
i149.photobucket.com/albums/s70/ … y8x54r.jpg


#2

Finnish sporting cartridge (Moose Hunting), uses the 7,62 Russian case necked up to hold a 8mm (true .315 Bore) projectile. cartridge has been around since the 1920s, probably developed by using a M95 Austrian Steyr ( plenty of these around after WW I in Finland, ex-Russian Captures from Austro-Hungarian Empire), and so fixing the ammo-chamber problem…Finland had plenty of 7,62 ammo after Independance, but no loads suitable for a heavy beast like Moose, so a compromise cartridge using the Russian case with the Austrian (244grain) Bullet, and which could be used in rechambered and sporterised M95s, or rebarrelled ( with Austrian barrels) Sporterised M91 Mosins. I think the most common 8,2x53R ( Commercial designation) rifles nowadays are Mosin Action types.

The Finns developed a series of “Sporter” cartridges, using the Mosin Action and the Russian case… 6,35x53R ( a “.25 Russian”, 6,5x53R ( a “.264” Russian) and a 8,2 x53R ( a “.32 Russian”) I don’t know if they went further with a 9x53R or a 9,3x53R, but the Russians did make a 9x54R (same case, Ruski designation is “54R”). I thing there was also a 7x53R as well.

All the calibre diameters are taken from well known European/American sporting calibres for Bullet selection, and probably the availability of ready- made barrel blanks (or Military take-off barrels in Finland) as well.

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics

PS, when I was in Italy back in 1992, I talked with a Gunshop-owner friend of mine, who had several very good Siamese mausers (T66, 8x52R calibre) and when I quizzed him about ammo availablity, he pulled out a packet of VPT 8,2x53R, and showed me some fired cases…fire formed, but a very good fit…he said it was the best thing ever for the Siamese rifles, given that original ammo was unobtainable, and “case conversions” were not a big thing in italy at the time…anyway, the “Commercial” (“sporter” ammo reiforced the view that the Rifle (in Italy at least at the time) was a "Sporter (permitted) and not “a Military” (which was sort of restricted…but that all changed witin a few years, when almost all Bolt guns were put of the free List in Italy, irrespective of their “Military” origins).

BTW, the 8,2x53R head is about .015 inch undersized for a 8x52R Siamese Chamber, but the rifle will take the case expansion, and the brass is top quality ( typical for Finnish products). Rims are about the same, and the shoulder position allows for interchange (but a Siamese cartridge will probably ( certainly) NOT chamber in a 8,2 Finnish chamber.

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics


#3

I think it is actually a relative of the 8x50R Mannlicher family. I have similar Mannlicher dummies, but the case length on this one is a real oddity.


#4

True, the Mannlicher 8x50R cases started as an 8x53R case in 1888, ( Semi-smokeless blended Nitrocellulose/Nitro-lignose powder load initially; with the change to a true Nitrocellulose Smokeless Powder in 1893, the case length was reduced to 50mm
Bullet diameter of the Military 8mm Mannlichers was “8,2mm” and the Commercial Austrian designation was the Bullet diameter ( 8,2x50R or 8,2x53R. (Military used Bore diameter, Commercial(Sporters) used Bullet diameter to designate ammo).

To determine whether the case concernd is Austrian or Finnish, check the following:

Head diameter in front of rim:–
Finnish : .485inch Austrian:.490-493 inch

Primer diameter:–
Finnish: .217 inch Berdan (5,5mm) or .254 Berdan(6,45mm)
Austrian .199 inch Berdan (5,00 mm).

This may help determine the exact ID opf the carttridge.

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics

PS, its not an 8x53 Murata (Japanese) perhaps???..the Japanese didn’t headstamp their ammo.


#5

A chromed Murata dummy!?!? Now that would be something! I’ll run right downstairs and compare it to my Muratas.
Ta!


#6

Hi John,

Check your unknown dummy with this measurements (from many specimens):

CL = 53,85-54,11
BL = 38,00-39,00 - due to a very rounded shoulder
NL = 9,98-10,51
RD = 13,97-14,04
HD = 12,49-12,58
SD = 11,83-12,01
ND = 8,90-8,97
BD = 8,10-8,16

They belong to the rare 8 x 54 R Nagant Experimental cartridge, Belgian Trials. No headstamp or just N (at 12). CNCS or plain steel bullets. Many loaded ones show up in Argentina in the 1990’s. Nothing to do with the 8 x 53 R Lee-Nagant M. 92.
Please check measurements again to be sure.