ID from 7.62 NATO experts


#1

I was digging through an old box put away for a long time and found these three. What do the tip colors mean???

The white and pink tip is FA 68. The green & white and the green & pink are LC 70 and LC 69 respectively. Of course all have the NATO mark.

Cheers,

Lew


#2

Green tip / pink band - Starlight tracer
Green tip / white band - frangible
White tip / pink band - “special” tracer


#3

Close, but no cigar.

Green/Pink = XM276, 3rd type 930 yard tracer

Green/White = XM276, GMCS 3rd type

White/Pink = XM276, 2nd type 1100 yard tracer

If that’s not confusing enough you have White/Orange, Pink, Green/White GM, all XM276 variations. And the M276 Violet.

Ray


#4

Many thanks!!!


#5

I have the first 2 examples and Rays descriptions match mine.
I have been told that the green/white tip code is actually an error.
At least the US stuff is nowhere near as confusing as the
massive number of British examples. I think I have over 30 different
experimental British tracer rounds and that is far from complete.
Also information is not as easy to come across regarding them.


#6

Craig

The Green/White cartridges are relatively common and several have been X-Rayed to confirm that they are tracers. I don’t trust X-rays. I think they are an optical illusion so I pulled a bullet, and it’s true. They look like an accident waiting to happen and there probably were a few. Accidents that is. You would not think that such a mistake could happen but, hey, it’s the military. As I noted they can be found in both GM and GMCS.

Ray


#7

Craig,
I’d guess you’re correct about the green/white tip being an error in that it’s the same colour code as the frangible load - an accident waiting to happen if ever there was.


#8

[quote=“RayMeketa”]Close, but no cigar.

Green/Pink = XM276, 3rd type 930 yard tracer

Green/White = XM276, GMCS 3rd type

White/Pink = XM276, 2nd type 1100 yard tracer

If that’s not confusing enough you have White/Orange, Pink, Green/White GM, all XM276 variations. And the M276 Violet.

Ray[/quote]

Thanks for the info Ray. May I ask what your using for a reference? I got my info from Vol. 2 Military Cartridges, W.D. de Hek. Obviously not experimental specific.

Here is a FA 65 marked Frangible




#9

Yep, but that projectile will disintegrate on impact, as designed, the XM276 with the same tip colours wont.
One is Bakelite and the other is GM or GMCS over lead.


#10

I also have an example of the green over white tip XM276 starlight tracer with a + LC 70 headstamp and I have always understood that it was a color coding error.

I’m almost certain that I have seen a similar round with the same color code but with a LC headstamp from the early 90s. This brings up two questions:

  1. Can anyone confirm the existence of such a round?

  2. If such a round does exist, does anyone have an explanation of why the same marking error would be repeated 20+ years later? Did they pull and re-use old projectiles perhaps?


#11

Excuse my ignorance, but is a starlight tracer the same as the german “Glimmspur” ?
Søren


#12

Twoaz,

I can confirm that such a round does exist; I have an ‘LC + 92’ with the same green/white tip. As far as I know this is the ‘7.62mm Dim Tracer M276’. I’ll post a picture if it’s of help.

Soren, the Starlight tracer does work in much the same way as the Glimmspur but it is much more extreme in it’s effect. It is so dim it is not visible to the naked eye, even at night, and can only be seen with the aid of Image Intensifier viewing devices.
I have a lilac-tipped infrared tracer ‘LC + 97’ which also works in a very similar way but this round is only visible to infrared viewing devices. This one’s a ‘7.62mm Infrared Tracer M276’ but why it has the same designation number I have no idea!
I think I’m correct in saying that Image Intensifiers work by detecting faint light sources while Infrared systems detect heat sources.

Jim


#13

[quote=“Jim”]
I think I’m correct in saying that Image Intensifiers work by detecting faint light sources while Infrared systems detect heat sources.

Jim[/quote]

Jim,
Image Intensifiers work by magnifying light sources ie starlight but there has to be some available light or the II won’t work.

Infared is an invisible band of radiation at the lower end of the visible light spectrum. With wavelengths from 750 nm to 1 mm, infrared starts at the end of the microwave spectrum and ends at the beginning of visible light. it doesn’t detect heat sources. :)

Simon


#14

Why do these 2 Frangible and 1 Tracer have 3 colours / Although I’m sure they’re counted as 2 colour.


#15

Left to right;
7.62mm Dim Tracer M276 'LC + 92’
7.62mm Infrared Tracer M276 'LC + 97’
7.62mm Green Tracer M62 ‘LC + 91’ - pictured to show the slight colouring difference

Simon, could you say all that again please, only a little more slowly?

Jim


#16

Chip

I have the same early and late Green/White cartridges. (LC 70 and LC 92). So, I’ve always assumed the color was no mistake or error. Otherwise you’d have to assume that they forgot the first mistake and repeated it again 22 years later. I have three of the '92 cartridges and all have the GM bullet so, again, I have assumed that to be the only difference from the earlier ones which were GMCS.

A lot of assuming going on there ;)

Armourer

You should know by now that you have to speak s l o w l y when there are Norfolk chaps around. ;) We have the same problem here in the US when conversing with rednecks from Arkansaw. No offence intended Jim. No one can be compared with an Arkansawian.

As to the three colors - I have seen others like that. I’m assuming again but I think it’s because the first coat of green didn’t take too well and so they double dipped. Maybe someone out there actually knows?

Ray


#17

[quote=“RayMeketa”]Chip

I have the same early and late Green/White cartridges. (LC 70 and LC 92). So, I’ve always assumed the color was no mistake or error. Otherwise you’d have to assume that they forgot the first mistake and repeated it again 22 years later. I have three of the '92 cartridges and all have the GM bullet so, again, I have assumed that to be the only difference from the earlier ones which were GMCS.

A lot of assuming going on there ;)

Armourer

You should know by now that you have to speak s l o w l y when there are Norfolk chaps around. ;) We have the same problem here in the US when conversing with rednecks from Arkansaw. No offence intended Jim. No one can be compared with an Arkansawian.

As to the three colors - I have seen others like that. I’m assuming again but I think it’s because the first coat of green didn’t take too well and so they double dipped. Maybe someone out there actually knows?

Ray[/quote]

Ray, Point taken re Norfolk & Arkansas, maybe they are twinned ? ;)

Would they got to the bother of double dipping ?

I’m not sure at what stage the tip colour gets put on so don’t know how much a pain in the bum job that would be to dip them again.


#18

[quote=“Armourer”]Why do these 2 Frangible and 1 Tracer have 3 colours / Although I’m sure they’re counted as 2 colour.

[/quote]

I’m just guessing here but could it be that the white was applied first as a wide band and then the tip green was dipped? Then you may see the overlapping white over green as a paler colour than the green on top of metal above it.

gravelbelly


#19

We need someone who can explain the painting process to us. I understand that some countries spray while some dip.

If you will look at many of the US cartridges with two colors you will see where the top color has flaked off exposing the other color underneath. So, I think they first dip the one, and then dip the second on top of it. That would explain the Frangibles with nothing but a white tip - the cartridge somehow missed the green dip.

What I am trying to comprehend is the ones that have a stripe or band. How did they do that??

Ray