ID help


#1

Need help on 2 non head-stamped rounds, short round resembles .41 Short colt,but case is very slightly longer. Bullet-.405, case length -.644, mouth-.405, rim-.473(thinner than Colt), OAL-1.110, small copper primer.
Longer round has flat nosed bullet resembling 41 long colt, Bullet-.406, Mouth-.407, Rim-.428, Case length- .938, OAL- 1.438, also has small copper primer. Thanks for any assistance, Tom.